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Suzuki 800 Intruder Club & Forum

A UK Site Dedicated To The Suzuki C800, VL800, VX800, M800, VZ800, VS800, C50, M50 Model Intruder / Boulevard / Marauder
 
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 Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)

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Rattler
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PostSubject: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:09 pm

Ok guys. After selling my camera and Christmas money I have some cash to splash out on the bike. I definitely want some new pannier bags and new grips but then it's either spot lights OR an X-TRE and K&N filter added with set up on rolling road. Any opinions on the TRE and are they really worth it? Does it increase insurance by a lot?Thanks guys.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:40 pm

TRE makes a difference but it is only slight! So if your in the market for a TRE, buy it but if it's a choice you have to make, spend your hard earnred elsewhere. No impact on insurance with my insurer as they like old farts like me but every insurance company is different so give them a ring.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:48 am

Will give the TRE a bit more thought. It's worth doing the filter though yeah to complete stage 1. Already got the pipes and Power Commander.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:35 am

Without a doubt it is well worth doing but you will not be completing stage 1, you will be completing stage 2 as long as you modify the stock air box On your bike. You will need to drill 11 1/2" holes on the underside of the air box to gain the extra flow that the K&N requires

Stage 1. Motorcycles with a stock engine using the stock airbox, stock air filter and stock pipes but using either a fuel injection module or that has been re-jetted.

Stage 2. motorcycles with a stock or mildly tuned engine using a well designed aftermarket pipe with a modified airbox and a high flow replacement air filter and either using a fuel injection module or re-jetted.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:36 pm

Ah yeah nice one.

Is drilling holes the only option for the air box? Is there no replacement mailbox without going to a Hypercharger?
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:47 pm

Can you get the cone type like the HD Screaming Eagle type.
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simbo
.. Mechanical Tart .. .. Site Moderator ..
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:02 pm

These do quite a few but not cheap
http://www.thundermfg.com/store/
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Mr Intruder
Suzuki800.com Founder ... & ... Senior Administrator
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:59 pm

Loads out there Rattler, from loads of different sources but they ain't cheap. If money holds you up from buying a different filter box then you will need to do as Crash says and drill the holes on the under-side, or do some kind of other mod on the stock box. Both myself and Alfie have modded the stock covers to give you some ideas, Have a look HERE and HERE as we both did it differently and also have different boxes.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:10 pm

Mine is the even uglier airbox on an '05 and its really one of the only things that I don't like on the bike. Do you know of anyone in the UK that sells the Kuryakyn Mach 2 or other air boxes. Had a quick look and couldn't see anywhere.
Your mods look great on it and no doubt do the job well. I could always do the top and bottom of mine as shown in one of those links.
Will it get as much air in top and bottom as it would on the side?
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:27 pm

It will get as much air as is needed no matter where you drill it as long as you take out the minimum area required.
Haven't been able to find a UK supplier for the 800 so far for that filter.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:32 pm

Where do you find the improvements in performance with the air filter?
I'm undecided what to spend the money on haha.
I have close to £600 to spend but its whether to spend it on performance and looks or just looks.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:57 pm

Rattler wrote:
Where do you find the improvements in performance with the air filter?
I am not sure I know exactly what you mean, OK lets try to answer your question anyway.

Your exhaust and power commander are under performing in a big way without an air intake increase. The exhaust will let more flow out but only if you let more flow in (Air Filter)
Your power commander will allow more fuel to be burnt but you can't burn more fuel if you don't have the oxygen to feed the fire (Air Filter)

All three items need the other two, if they are to work to full potential.

Please read what Crash wrote earlier today.
captain crash wrote:
Without a doubt it is well worth doing but you will not be completing stage 1, you will be completing stage 2 as long as you modify the stock air box On your bike. You will need to drill 11 1/2" holes on the underside of the air box to gain the extra flow that the K&N requires

Stage 1. Motorcycles with a stock engine using the stock airbox, stock air filter and stock pipes but using either a fuel injection module or that has been re-jetted.

Stage 2. motorcycles with a stock or mildly tuned engine using a well designed aftermarket pipe with a modified airbox and a high flow replacement air filter and either using a fuel injection module or re-jetted.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:08 pm

With the question I was meaning where do you see a difference? Bottom end? Top end?
From what you've both said though it's something I need to get done whether I mod the current box or buy one but they are damn expensive but do look good.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:11 pm

You will see a power increase throughout the whole rev range.
Don't forget to download the new map if you go for the K&N LINK


Last edited by Mr Intruder on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:14 pm

Ok thanks for that Dave and Crash. Just need to decide which way to go about it now.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:51 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but 11 1/2 holes would be approximately an area of 14cm square. Think I've got that right. Is this the minimum area required for the increase of air? Is there any issues with more air going through?
Dave, I'll probably get it set up on a rolling road again. When I had the pipes fitted, they sorted a custom map for the bike.

Here are a few ideas I'm toying with. Not sure I'd trust myself to cut these out though. These are drawn from the above view.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:25 pm

Do you notice much with gear changes with Stage 2?
Also as I'm going for Stage 2 would the TRE still make only a small difference? Just thinking that if I'm sending it in for the mapping with the increased airflow. If I'm gonna go for a TRE may as well get it all done at the same time.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:55 pm

Rattler wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but 11 1/2 holes would be approximately an area of 14cm square. Think I've got that right. Is this the minimum area required for the increase of air? Is there any issues with more air going through?
Dave, I'll probably get it set up on a rolling road again. When I had the pipes fitted, they sorted a custom map for the bike.

The 11 1/2" holes is an approximate guide to the desired airflow required for one set of parameters that has become the standard for a K&N to gain an equal amount between horse & torque power . Sorry I am not good enough at maths to work out what that is as a single hole.
One thing to consider is how airflow current relates to torque curves. The harder the air is for the engine to suck the more torque it makes at low RPM. Think of it like a snorkel that you breath through under water. A longer snorkel is harder to suck air through. Bikes come choked up from the factory and need to be opened a little, the engine needs to breath but there is a fine line between helping and hindering when you give it more air if you don't equalize everything else. Same concept applies to exhaust pipes. Open the pipe too much and you potentially lose low end power. power is a balancing act between air in & out and fuel being either added or surprisingly reduced at other points within the rev range. If any combination of the three main elements isn't working right it throws the other two out of sync. However as you are having your bike set up on a rolling road there is zero % guess so however you decide to modify your airbox you will be guaranteed that they will add and reduce fuel to the exact required parameters. As for the TRE, yes it will still make a difference. The greater the power the more the TRE will actually come into effect, it will help with the power increase and smooth out the throttle response.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:33 pm

I'm interested in low end torque. I'm not so much interested in top end bhp and top speed. So maybe if I did the 11 holes at 1/2" or maybe a few less I'd get more what I'm after.
Seems a bit more complicated than I thought trying to get this right lol.
Cheers Dave, lots of useful information.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:55 pm

Sometimes too much info isn't a good thing, it scrambles the brain over tiny & almost unnoticeable changes.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:05 pm

But it helps me understand a bit more about how it works.
Does anyone know the source of the 11 1/2 holes? Just wondering if there are any other guidelines to it.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:50 pm

I've just seen this too.
http://www.metricthunder.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MT&Product_Code=30101A-F&Category_Code=PE01

I really think that would look smart and show more of the engine.
Hmm...need to think about this. I do like the cone type too but I'm not sure if it would look right. Probably more suited to the M800.
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captain crash
Mentally Deficient lunatic ..... & ..... Site Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:03 pm

Here is one link to Gmanindustries the makers of the bully
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm

Ah, so is that just the normal K&N filter but you can add the template? Cheers for that. It's just whether to mod the existing air box or go for a new one.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:01 am

Rattler wrote:
I really think that would look smart and show more of the engine.
That desire could lead to a complete air box removal. LINK
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:23 am

Yeah I've already looked at that thread Dave. It does look quite smart but I think I'd rather have it there.
The only thing with getting an aftermarket intake is you don't know how much extra air its getting as opposed to knowing that drilling the 11 holes gives the torque/bhp balance.
That Thunder Mfg one would cost £250 including shipping.
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simbo
.. Mechanical Tart .. .. Site Moderator ..
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:15 pm

I've been having a snoop around and these will fit with a little modification,If you know someone else who's thinking of changing ? you could split the cost in half ? It would only cost £80 then or cheaper if ordered from china,
I'll get the pics of the mods that need doing to make it fit later, If that's anything like your after.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminum-Air-Cleaner-Filter-Kit-for-Suzuki-Boulevard-M109-/180895554011?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2a1e3719db
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:38 pm

Cheers for that Simbo but I think I've moved away from the cone style now. I'm not sure it would look right on mine. More suited to the M series.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:13 pm

simbo wrote:
I'll get the pics of the mods that need doing to make it fit later, If that's anything like your after.
Now that would be well worth knowing
Put in a thread on it's own though Sim or it will get lost in time in this thread.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:07 pm

I've ordered the Thunder Mfg Hurricane. It's not cheap but I liked the look of it. This is what it will look like. I've also ordered a Highway Hawk radiator grill and the Kuryakyn look alike grips off eBay.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=thunder+mfg+hurricane+vl800&hl=en&client=ms-android-htc-rev&tbo=d&source=android-launcher-widget&v=141338691&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=jrngUPT8Lqya1AWf1IHYDA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=566#i=6
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:18 pm

Cool we will look forward to seeing that fitted
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:35 pm

Well I've changed my mind and luckily because of the holidays, got a refund before it was sent out. Just £350 including set up on rolling road seemed a lot. Probably just gonna go for the stock box mod.
The Gman industries one am I right in saying it's just the k&n and a template that you get? Unless you order the drill bit with it. Would cost .£100 including shipping. Hmm might just get the K&N, get the drill bit over here and see if I can get a template from somewhere.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:29 pm

Rattler you don't actually require a template as such, you just need to open up that amount as a minimum. Here is a Link for you LINK
Also remember that that is the template setup for the bully controller so your power commander will not match the fuelling differences exactly as it is setup at the moment as they are different controllers. It will just be ruffly right when setup.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:20 pm

So you mean I may not get the best out of it even if set up on a rolling road?
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:37 pm

If you are having it setup on a rolling road you will get a perfect setup, whether you leave the air box stock, drill 11 holes, 30 holes or remove the air box altogether. However it will not be "perfect" if you then decide to make any further changes but as long as you have that setup as mapped out on the day of the rolling road setup you will be spot on.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: Some money to splash out on bike (K&N)   Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:27 pm

Yeah I thought so. I misunderstand what you said in the comment before. It was spot on when it was set up with the pipes. I doubt I'll be doing much more for performance for a long while.
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