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 VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.

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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:39 pm

Parts required + optional & price I paid.

VS1400 drive - £150.00
VS1400 drive shaft spring "ideally" (09440-30008)   if not supplied. £2.00
VS1400 seal (09283-30026) - £7.10
VS1400 seal (09289-70002) - Optional £29.67
VS1400 circlip (09381-40003) - £3.12
Molly grease/paste (99000-25140) or equivalent - £5.99
Gear oil (75-90) - £14.16
- Either replacement or you original 800 drive shaft (27151-41F00) £?

Total for  job = £210.04

You will firstly need to disengage the rear brake & remove the rear wheel LINK

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Remove the 3 nuts & washers that hold the drive to the shaft casing (A thin plate (bearing stopper) can bee seen between the black shaft cover & the drive in the photo) this will need removing & putting back as well.

...................................
on reffiting
Where the new VS1400 drive remounts to the "drive shaft cover" (as shown in the picture below) you will need to file the 3 mounting holes out towards the outer edge of both the black drive shaft cover and the bearing stopper plate, (this is to accept the fractional difference in the 3 mounting bolt's on the VS1400 drive). I did this very easily on a trial and error basis with a dremel with a small grinding tool. You will also need to do the same to the bearing stopper plate that looks initially like a gasket that goes between the drive and black drive shaft cover mounting area. It is important that this is reused as it has a small tongue that  stops the stopper bearing from turning.

...................................






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You are now ready for you VS1400 conversion

This pic is just to show you the in real terms difference between the VL800/M800 & VS1400 drive shafts.



You will need to have either your original or replacement C800 drive shaft milled. Both the head & shoulder of the drive shaft will need to be milled back by 3/16" of an inch (4.7625 millimetres), giving a total length to the drive shaft of 15.3/4" inches long.



The drive being milled, cost £20




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Which ever spacer used it will ideally need milling back to a total spacer length of 2,7/8" (73.025mm). As you can see in the picture the VS1400 spacer is bigger & longer than the original C800 spacer that came in my bike. However we have noticed that some stock spacers have been tested at slightly varying lengths. We don't believe that a fractional difference will make any difference due to the design & length of the fitments & the length of the drive shaft. We do however suggest getting as close to 2.7/8" (73.025mm) as possible, just to be on the safer side of safe. 



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Ensure that this section within the drive is greased, along with the respective mating face of the shaft when inserted together.





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Also ensure that the milled end of the drive shaft and all teeth where it sit's in the "stopper bearing" is also greased before re- insertion with the drive shaft spring.



.

When the milled drive shaft is put back in to the drive (also for extraction), you will need to use either a special "ciirclip removal tool" or as I did, simply sharpen some "needle nose pliers" so that I could use them to get in to the small holes in the circlip and squeeze it together before extraction.
When the shaft is placed back into the drive (before circlip and grease seal) you will need to insert the drive end spring. Ideally this should be the bigger one used for the original VS1400 drive rather than the smaller C800 spring, as it is much stronger. If you do not have this spring the part number required for this is #09440-30008 as opposed to the C800 spring #09440-18019



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After the circlip has been installed, smear a little grease on the seal lip and gently but firmly push into position.



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The next seal that I have replaced is very much "optional" & is not usually changed for this modification.
You need to remember that this seal could potential have been in place for over 20 years and are known (very rarely) for leaks. So for me it is a no brainer to change this while the drive shaft if off rather than risking an issue later.

You will need to undo the 10 retaining bolts.




You will then need to screw 2 x 5mm bolts into the small holes, this will push the outer plate and attached seal away from the drive for removal. You will not be able to remove this plate and seal in any other way.



.

I had to use a blunt instrument and a mallet to remove the seal. It will come out from either side that you decide to work on it from. To reinsert the new seal, you will need to push it in as best you can,then lightly tap it into position. Ensure you wipe the out seal edge with gear oil when finshed.


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When you have inserted this seal and are ready to replace the plate, put the bolts in and tighten them all slowly one by one a little at a time & systematically. This will ensure that the plate goes down evenly and doesn't damage the seal. It will take a while to keep going around them a few times one by one but this is a job you should never have to do again. Ensure you use lock tight on the bolts!
.

When you have finished working on this area ensure you liberally cover this area with molly grease. Don't forget to also grease the respective mating face on the wheel.




This is what the drive looks like when completely open.
As you can see, there is not a lot to them, it' is no more than an enlarged final gear compared to the stock one.



Finally fill up the drive with oil to the bottom of the filler hole.



Job done



Some time ago I checked what RPM's my bike was running at in 5th gear, hear are the results:

Standard 800 drive

50 mph - 3000 rpm
55 mph - 3300 rpm
60 mph - 3600 rpm
65 mph - 3900 rpm
70 mph - 4100 rpm (With VS1400 drive now at 3500 rpm)
75 mph - 4500 rpm
80 mph - 4900 rpm
85 mph - 5100 rpm
90 mph - 5500 rpm

I have been amazed by this modification and am finding that very often I am in a different gear than expected. The gears are so much longer and feels like a bigger engine has been transplanted. This is a mod sent from heaven, the bike has gone from great to ace overnight. She still pulls really well during acceleration, although I am sure there would be a fraction of loss from a standing start but from there on she would come into another league. I
n that area I can say honestly that I have not noticed any difference but the you probably wouldn't unless you were under full bore acceleration but with my power enhancements, she still pulls like a train.
I would do this modification before doing anything else if I was forced to start again with my bike as the difference is massive and without any noticeable negatives at all. 

  **********

Please look lower down the page for Simbo's post, including the pictures of the expected hole enlargement in the drive shaft cover to except the 3 mounting bolts from the newly added VS1400 drive.
Also a description of the area needed to file/grind down on the false swing arm that was not required by Mr Intruder as his has been completely removed.


Last edited by Mr Intruder on Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:52 pm; edited 5 times in total
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fat intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:22 pm

nice job dave
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:14 am

Excellent detailed write up Dave
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:01 pm

As always Dave very informative write up,cheers mate.The white wall tyre also looks boss.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:24 pm

As to be expected dave, brilliant write up and explanation.
Thats a huge drop in rpm at 70 mph you have reported there mate, that will be great for fuel saving, especially at motorway speeds.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:18 pm

Yeah should save a few bob with the France trip coming up, 600rpm is a hell of a lot at those speeds. The bike is just so relaxed at higher rpm now and still really happy around town. Best mod I have ever done to any bike I have ever owned.
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Doc Cox
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:27 pm

Good evening, Excellent write up and illustrations Dave 600 rpm is a real drop and as you said the power boosts you have done will help the higher gearing plus relax the engine at cruising speeds, you said these units were hard to get hold of. I wonder if any of the larger Virago units would be suitable for modification , as you still have the old diff assy. it would be interesting to compare one to a Virago unit. Have you recovered from the shock of Glens joke phone call yet, keep up the good work, regards Doc Cox, E=MC2
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JJW
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:09 pm

Dave, Great post. Great pictures.
I bought a used conversion kit 3 years ago, I love it, never looked back.

edit: One other thing is I had to file the drive shaft casing mounting holes.
The rear end bolt pattern was slightly large the original three bolt hole pattern of the stock rear end.
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Proudtexson
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:24 pm

Great job Dave. That should really help the petrol(gas) bill. Should save that engine. At that RPM you have the option to downshift if it loads up. that's the same effect as having an overdrive.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:41 pm

Glad to here that John.
I did mention about filing out the holes with a dremel in the write-up above but forgot to take pictures.
However I will take a couple next week when I take the unit back off the bike for spraying satin black. Only thing is before I spray it, I will need to cut the original VS1400 suspension mounting bolt off the drive as the bloody thing will just not come out & there is no way I am prepared to put that under any undue stress.

Tex, I still need to get out and have a proper play yet as I have only had an hour in the seat since the mod was done & most of that was on the highway. However I did not that the gears are much more forgiving of up and down gear changes.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:25 am

Just been looking at what you paid for all of this, thats less than a fuel processor. So I have a question for you. If you had a stock bike and you had to have one either a fuel processor fitted or the vs1400 drive, which one would come first?
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JJW
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:46 pm

A stock bike with OEM exhaust and intake, I say: change the rear end.

A bike with loud pipes, free breathing intake, I say: buy a fuel processor.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:08 pm

Very good question Crash and I am in 100% agreement with John.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but for me, from stock it would have to be the VS1400 mod first without a doubt or hesitation. If the power mods were already being put on the bike it would be a no brainer to finish what was already started, but from fresh it would have to be the VS1400 drive every time.
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Proudtexson
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:32 pm

Dave I have been wondering if you have had a chance to ride and if you still like the mod. Have you found any ill effects.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:23 pm

Funny you mention it as I have just got back in from a 207 mile 3 hour round trip to London and Oxford doing a favour (paid of course) for an ex boss. I would highly recommend this mod to anyone, whether they be a local plodder or like to get a bit of distance. The bike is just in another league altogether compared to what it was like before. It cruises at high speed with so much more grace than the stock bike. The longer gears are just so much nicer even around town. The 800 pulls really well anyway so with this mod it just makes the bike so much more of a pleasure to ride. I had read so much about this mod and until you actually experience the difference first hand, its hard to full comprehend the improvement that it actually does make. I wish I had done it 3 years ago but the wait was worth it anyway.
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Proudtexson
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:09 pm

That is good to hear. My trike has a small ford rear end under it turned by a auto. type drive shaft. i wonder if I could put a taller gear in it. Do you know what the gear ratio change was. I may do some research on that. I think parts for a older mustang or Pinto would fit.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:35 pm

The VS1400 drive has approximately 14% higher gear ratio than the stock C800/C50 drive.
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Proudtexson
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:59 pm

Thanks Dave. That gives me something to work with.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:34 pm

Mr Intruder wrote:
Funny you mention it as I have just got back in from a 207 mile 3 hour round trip to London and Oxford doing a favour (paid of course) for an ex boss. I would highly recommend this mod to anyone, whether they be a local plodder or like to get a bit of distance. The bike is just in another league altogether compared to what it was like before. It cruises at high speed with so much more grace than the stock bike. The longer gears are just so much nicer even around town. The 800 pulls really well anyway so with this mod it just makes the bike so much more of a pleasure to ride. I had read so much about this mod and until you actually experience the difference first hand, its hard to full comprehend the improvement that it actually does make. I wish I had done it 3 years ago but the wait was worth it anyway.

Thats good to see
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fat intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:40 pm

if you like it that much it was well worth doing mate
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:08 pm

I bet it's like riding a bigger bike?, especially after the air filter and exhaust mods to gain more power that will easily pull the higher gear ratio.

Where did you source your final drive from? UK or USA I can only find them on Ebay for big money.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:23 am

It is like riding a bigger bike sort of Sim, its nice to have the extra va va voom in this nicely sized cruiser frame
As for the VS1400 drives, the best thing to do is look every week, that's how I found mine. I did see one in the UK a while ago but didn't think to post the link as I had forgotten that you had mentioned possibly doing the mod. I will keep my eyes peeled for you now mate.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:21 pm

Mr Intruder wrote:
I will keep my eyes peeled for you now mate.

Cheers Dave
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:59 pm

I've been waiting for someone over here to do the drive mod. I've been considering it for a few year's now. I always find myself trying to find a 6th gear so this would be great.
Nice one Dave.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:10 pm

It makes a massive difference Rattler, go for it mate. That's if you can find one at a reasonable price, they do come up but you have to seriously keep them peeled.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat May 18, 2013 8:57 pm

Dave, I've ordered one of these drives now, Did you get your vs seals and circlip from the UK or USA? and which is the seal you've had trouble with since.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat May 18, 2013 10:16 pm

Oh thats great, you will be shocked at the difference and its a really easy mod to do.  
Sim I ordered from Europe but pop into your local dealership to order your parts, it actually works out slightly cheaper doing it that way surprisingly.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat May 18, 2013 10:24 pm

Thanks Dave I'll get those ordered locally before it arrives.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:30 pm

The 1400 drive begins Very Happy

Bored on a rainy Sunday and still overcoming being on a stag do since Friday morning? Hmmm I know! Take the bike apart lol


Monday after work, Elongate the holes to receive the new drive housing :aghh: God I hate hand tools! Note to self? Must buy dremel.

Dropped shaft and spacer off at engineering works for pick up tomorrow on way home.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:41 pm

Good on you Simbo, with the power mods you have already done I reckon this will be a real asset to you ride 
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:56 am

That's brilliant, I know you will love it I do.
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Proudtexson
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:16 am

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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:12 am

Simbo wrote:
Elongate the holes to receive the new drive housing  God I hate hand tools! Note to self? Must buy dremel.

Oh my god I have just re-read what you wrote and suddenly realized how hard that must have been to have done that by hand. Yes you really must by a Dremel, fair play and lots of respect to you for doing it the old fashioned way.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:19 pm

I really want to get this mod done but haven't come across a VS1400 shaft yet. Not so sure I'd be confident doing it either lol.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:44 pm

Rattler wrote:
 Not so sure I'd be confident doing it either lol.

It really isn't that hard Rattler, Mines back together now and just waiting for oil in the drive, It probably took me about 4 hours in total and that's with filing the swing arm holes bigger, I'd have been out and about on it tonight but need to remove the suspension bolt for the 1400 so I can refit my side mount reg using that hole, That is one tight bolt! I'll get an impact driver tomorrow to remove the fecker.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:49 pm

Looking good, man thats shiny 
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:58 am

Great stuff Sim, I was out on mine today and those gears make such a difference, can't wait to see what you think after your first ride.
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:06 pm

Well done lads obviously a good mod to do.
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Proudtexson
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:47 pm

Sim
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:05 pm

Sim do me a favour mate, when you get a chance can you check the RPM's against what I posted higher up in this thread as I would like to know if they are correct or not. Reason being I am not 100% sure how accurate my reading was and as you have an electronic Tach it will probably be more precise.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:14 pm

Will do Dave  I've just got that suspension bolt out  22mm 6 sided socket leathered with an impact driver, Then a straight socket bar with a 3 feet extension on it lol God that mother was tight! Just got to drill some washers then it's back on with the reg and time for riding Very Happy
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:59 pm

Yeah 70mph = 3500 rpm The bike feels so much more relaxed to ride now! I took it to 80 and felt it could cruise easily at that speed all day Very Happy Around town the gears seem to last a lot longer before a change up is needed, I'll take it steady for 100 mile or so to let everything bed in, Then do a mph/rpm chart,............... Very happy indeed 
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:38 am

I have left the suspension bolt in for now as I am lazy but I did have a quick go at getting it out but the bolt said no.
Really glad you like it so much, its unreal the difference those longer gears make from just plodding around town to high speed. A 600 rpm drop at 70mph is a massive drop so high speed cruising becomes a dream with the lower revs. You will have to re-learn your bike now as you will find you are in a lower gear than you think. The gearing change makes the bike so much more usable and seem so much more powerful due to the length of the gears.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:21 am

Rattler wrote:
I may just get it off eBay and sort it from there as I'd like it as soon as really.
Good for you Rattler, I always respect the man that can, keep us informed how you get on with it mate.
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Rattler
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:33 am

Will do bud. I'm gonna get the air filter housing mod done too which I didn't end up doing over the winter. I don't want to loose any of that bottom end.
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Bunso Steel
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:52 am

Does this mod only work for the c800 or will it fit the m800 too?
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:53 am

Bunso Steel wrote:
Does this mod only work for the c800 or will it fit the m800 too?


It works with both Joe 
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:10 pm

Fake Swing arm, Some like it some don't, So anyone who's thinking of the 1400 drive? The fake swing arm can be re-fitted with about an hours work with a grinder if you want it back on.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:55 pm

Looking great Simbo, what bit needs grinding to re fit the swing arm with this mod?
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: VS1400 Drive & Shaft Modification ......................How To Thread.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:52 pm

captain crash wrote:
what bit needs grinding to re fit the swing arm with this mod?


 You can take it all off the false swing arm or all off the drive hub, I took most off the swing arm and just a little off the hub.

 just a little off the hub.
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» vs1400 drive mod
by mally Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:21 pm

» VL800 C800 ENGINE
by Wiggo Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:38 am

» VZ800 Compression question
by v-twin Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:05 pm

» Powder coat wheels
by peardrop3 Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:30 pm

» Gaskets thickness ?
by grumpy grandad Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:15 pm

» 2006 TO 2016 ENGINE SWAP
by simbo Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:43 pm

» VS 750 rat bike
by grumpy grandad Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:57 pm

» Hi All
by ardie Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:04 pm

» Hello from US
by ardie Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:58 pm

» newbee
by stingray Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:42 pm

» Hello from New Zealand
by stingray Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:35 pm

» Wider Angle Mirror Upgrade
by bigmal Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:34 pm

» Fitting additional on/off light switch
by v-twin Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:49 am

» vs800 bobber build
by simbo Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:19 pm

» Halogen/LED Headlamp Upgrade?
by simbo Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:56 pm

» exhaust seal
by mally Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:24 pm

» Starter motor switch jammed
by v-twin Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:50 pm

» Battery Replacement Conundrum
by bagtoracer68 Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:18 am

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