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 Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...

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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:28 pm

Hi gents,

Your feedback and advice is very much desired here.
I look at the customcruisers and these are listed with a "no re-jet required" in big red letters.
I talk to Martin, Carl and others...and everyone says that re-jet will most likely be a must due to backfiring etc.

For me that's all a "what the hell" moment.

The last thing I'd want to touch is the carb... from what I heard, if you don't know what you're doing, don't touch it.
Concept of re-jetting is a bit overwhelming at this moment in time.

I know the bikes are lean (that stands for weakish?) from factory...and I know that an exhaust that's more "straight-through" will most likely cause the bike to run ever weaker (due to increased flow?)

I know as well that no two bikes are the same and I wonder if it wouldn't be the case of testing if it will cause any issues, backfire etc?
I'd rather not take the exhaust apart just to find out that I can't ride without further work for that I might not be skilled enough.
There has to be a reason why they're listed as no re-jetting required.?

Thank you kindly in advance.
M.

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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:43 pm

In an ideal world any change to the in or out flow will have a re-jet but they say no re-jet required because as long as you do not replace the stock air filter with any kind of hi flow filter you can get away with it
The back firing that you mention can be got rid of by blocking the PAIR valve breather hose at either the PAIR valve end or filter end which is really easy to do
Hope this helps a little
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:19 pm

It does, help, thanks mate.

I'm not a fan of workarounds though and fiddling with pair valve feels like one.
I'm sure it's there for a reason (?)

I'm still due a visit to local bike restoration shop.. perhaps they will do the re-jet, in which instance I'll just have a go myself as I want to learn the ins and outs of my bike. If I cock up I'll always have them at hand to set the carb right.

But first...I'll simply put the pipes on and see if there will be any issues.
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Bunso Steel
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:07 pm

I installed aftermarket exhaust pipes without changing anything else on the bike and it runs fine. I want a K&N air filter, but to have that I'll have to install a fuel processor too or it will run super lean.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:19 pm

I sense installation and noise comparison videos coming into production
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:58 pm

MarcinG wrote:
I'm not a fan of workarounds though and fiddling with pair valve feels like one.
I'm sure it's there for a reason (?)
Pair valve is a 10 minute job that even the most inexperienced person can disable, should they feel the need.
Have a read of this link for a little more info LINK on the valve

MarcinG wrote:
I'm still due a visit to local bike restoration shop.. perhaps they will do the re-jet
If you are going to pay for a re-jet, do not waste your money having it done only for pipes. It would be silly to pay all that money and not have them do it after fitting a K&N or Hi-Flo filter because if you did have it re-jetted with only the pipes on, you would need it done again if you added an aftermarket filter.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:18 pm

Agreed on the rejetting...makes sense to go with the filter too.
So is the pair valve useless then. Have you all guys removed it then?
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:59 pm

Just read the topic...so you've actually left it in as it generates bddddddddurble...
mine is staying then, I love that sound. Isn't that called overrun?
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:03 am

MarcinG wrote:
isn't that called overrun?
Yes it is and the PAIR valve helps this to happen, not a good thing if there is huge amounts of it with a cat but does have to be bad to have a detrimental effect on the cat. Not a concern for you either way is you don't have a cat in the pipes you are putting on.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:53 am

Muhahahahhaaaa

Lovely my friend...just lovely. Twisted Evil
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Freemo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:43 pm

I'd just fit the pipes, run it a couple of hundred miles and then check the condition of the spark plugs to determine how it's running. As you say, custom cruisers state no re-jetting required, I've been there and they seem to know what they are talking about
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AmericanJambo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:16 pm

Throw on a K&N filter and do the re-jet. You'll be extremely happy you did. A properly tuned engine producing more power and torque is always more fun to drive.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:14 pm

Martin,
Yeah, I intend to.

Jambo,
I most likely will after a while however I don't feel the need of extra power/torque at all. It's fast enough for my liking.
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AmericanJambo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:25 pm

MarcinG wrote:
Jambo,
I most likely will after a while however I don't feel the need of extra power/torque at all. It's fast enough for my liking.

There's no such thing! Wink
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:29 pm

Hahaha.... give me few months, I'll come around lol!
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:02 pm

You can have not enough power, you can never have to much. Just cause its there doesn't mean you have to use it, it just means when you want to you can
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:12 pm

I guess that rings true..same with cars...extra power to get away from danger if have to.

Fun fact, I installed a db meter today on my Htc to see how loud the stock is and it reported between 80 and 90 idle depending on the distance from pipe (standing, kneeling).
Jardines are allegedly idling around 95 so I'm guessing the application is not reporting right.
but no matter, I'll measure using the same app after installation and the difference will be real.
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Bunso Steel
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:16 pm

At that volume an increase in a couple of decibels can mean a huge difference to how loud you perceive the sound to be. Basically I think 95db would sound a heck of a lot louder than 90db even though its only an increase of 5
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:36 am

That's true actually..I've read up on the db's and 5db will make a huge difference.

I'll be recording rust removal how to video since Jardines have few spots and then I'm onto installing them for this weekend hopefully.
And then... noise comparison, drive-by videos...the ever so popular ones.


I wonder if I should order a set of gaskets.
Martin suggested heating the old ones up to sort of refurbish them but I'm not sure my wife will appreciate me bbq'ing gaskets over the over lol!
Do you guys have a good source for them? I'm not sure what I'm seeing on ebay as some are listed as pipe/silencer ones, which is not what I'm after.
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Bunso Steel
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:34 pm

I didn't change my gaskets, but that was because my bike was still very new and the gaskets were in mint condition. On a 2003 bike I expect you would have to replace them, although I've not heard of heating them up to renew them?
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AmericanJambo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:21 pm

Replace your gaskets. They're dirt cheap. Why even consider trying to re-use old ones? Do a job right the first time and you'll not have to do it a second.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:46 pm

Can you point me to where they are dirt cheap?
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:46 pm

I believe the part number is 14181-10F00 but I can't find them in uk
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:06 pm

MarcinG wrote:
I believe the part number is 14181-10F00 but I can't find them in uk

Marcin, if you give wemoto a ring or order from there website (pattern part), they're less than a couple of quid each, you need the alloy/asbestos ones at 59mm for your bike
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:22 pm

Brilliant website, cheers Sim. (however they don't list K3 as Volusia???)

A call it will have to be...can't find the bloody part.

I can't believe such small part causes so much grief
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:14 am

Sigh...

enquired with Wemoto, M&P's. Awaiting answer.

Found one at www.cmsnl.com ... 2 + shipping will put me back 30 quid.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:28 am

Update:

Excelent service from WeMoto.
6 quid later I have two ordered..wohooo :)

Here's the link for reference:
59mm gasket
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu May 02, 2013 7:23 am

Have you fitted the pipes yet Marcin?
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu May 02, 2013 10:21 am

Annoyingly no.
Gaskets arrived promptly, good service from wemoto.

I got the "before" recorded so far. Not sure I'll be recording the installation, maybe just "after" for comparison as there aren't many videos online for that exhaust on YT (just Freemo's I guess?!)

Was tied up with some work after daily work so far.
Tried yesterday late evening, took the side cover off (and discovered there was something installed that was taken out...only some scratches left and a earther wire cut off next to it on the frame ?? any clue what should be in that side cover?) and tried the deep set bolts first to conclude that I will need the allen sockets after all.

My mate is bringing no6 today and we'll have a go. This upcoming weekend is looking glorious so far and I'd rather not miss the opportunity to go out and make some noise!
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu May 02, 2013 7:16 pm

Put a picture up of the offending wire and area marcin, that might help guys work out what it was. Probably just something someone had fitted then removed, alarm maybe
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu May 02, 2013 8:01 pm

Update straight from the garage.
pipes installed....
OH....MY.......GOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu May 02, 2013 8:16 pm

MarcinG wrote:
Update straight from the garage.
pipes installed....
OH....MY.......GOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

What? I can't hear you!!!!!
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu May 02, 2013 9:57 pm

Too right :)

So..having everything in place and hex socket at hand I decided to have a go today and it turned out to be good fun instead of chore.
I have not recorded any of it though...just wanted the pipes on asap.

Disassembly - easy... bolts squeaked and moved under pressure. WD40 applied 20ish minutes beforehand though to aid the process.

Taking out the old gaskets - terrifying for a moment when I noticed how different they are to what I had purchased but that was uncalled for really. Small flat screwdriver + hammer and they came out no problem with pliers.

Cleaning break - with exhaust off I just couldn't resist giving the parts a good clean...now it's squeaky clean and shiny :)

Jardine assembly - even easier... hanged the bottom one on one of the screws at the back, screwed in the pipe in head. Once all bolts were in I added the other half the same way. Then came the gasket crushing...I found out that a good indicator of how far in I was screwing in was the metal squeak that I had when I was taking them off...indicating that I was at the same ish level.

I think the gaskets were the most fiddly bit....trying to put them in and hold in place with pipe until you put the screws on.

Once I had all bolts tightened I took the opportunity to adjust the suspension from 4 to 6 - easily done again but stupidly I did that shortly after firing up and I burned my hand...souvenir :)

The bike sounds absolutely amazing... and I had some funny moment too...or should I say dummy moment.

I fired it up....and thought...that's awesome idle noise... It warmed up quickly as I was chatting to my mate (quite comfortably without the "what did ya say??!!?") but when I gave it a blip...well we didn't expect the explosion of noise that followed... we laughed hard for few minutes just happy with the work and the sound.
I took it out on the road, tried going,...coughed, choked, coughed...DIED!
I thought - mmmkay, it's so much louder I probably didn't give it enough throttle...
Tried again, more throttle....coughed, choked, DIED!
At this point I was like "oooooh shit...."

I turned around, hopped onto the driveway. We looked at each other and said....damnit...mechanic visit...

Then I got off the bike and thought out loud.... "Hmm.... maybe I should put the air filter cover back on?"
What followed was fits of laughter how silly we were...the bike was getting tons of extra air and cutting out as result.

I quickly reassembled the cover, fired up again, took it off the driveway and I opened it up big time...
I think I've woken up all the living and stirred up the dead.

On idle....purrs like a sleeping dragon...but if you touch throttle it screams!!

To add a cherry on top, my wife came back from the local shop and said..."ok let's hear it then"... started up..."ooh nice"... then I gave it a blip and she jumped lol...but she loves it!!!

I'll record the sound tomorrow, edit the video and post "before-after" on YT.

Excited as hell!
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Thu May 02, 2013 10:52 pm

MarcinG wrote:
On idle....purrs like a sleeping dragon...but if you touch throttle it screams!!

Can't wait for the video
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Proudtexson
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 1:30 am

Air filter cover. That's what us old guys call a Senior moment.
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AmericanJambo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 3:31 am

That's awesome. I have the baffles out of my cobra drag pipes and they're loud as hell. When it backfires it sounds like a gunshot. My neighbors love it. Wink I can only imagine how much louder the short cut pipes are!
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 8:36 am

Cool glad your happy with your new sound
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 8:51 am

Oh yes... I'm like McDonald's song now.. "ta ta taa taaa taaaa... I'm lovin' it"
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pledge
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 9:01 am

Glad it all went well for you, and that you are pleased with the result.
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CJDJ
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 12:14 pm

I'm made up that you are happy with your Jardines.
I'm glad they are functioning to your satisfaction.
I should have charged you more money for them lol!
Carl..................
This song is for Marcin & Bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYv2n-hRsa0
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 6:10 pm

I wonder how long it will be before the ear plugs go in and the DB killers are fitted
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pledge
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 6:30 pm

I don't see the point of fitting loud pipes and then fitting things to quiet them down, kind of defeats the object.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 7:32 pm

captain crash wrote:
I wonder how long it will be before the ear plugs go in and the DB killers are fitted

I always use ear plugs mate...not so much because of the exhaust but the wind noise that's equally damaging over long time.


I just came back from a ride an hour ago.
They're brutally loud...so loud that my right ear is still ringing.

Sound is incredible and it's a must have for any events I'll participate in...
but long cruises are under a question mark. Need to take my wife for a ride and if she'll be uncomfortable then they're coming off.
Swapping them is dead easy so no issues here.
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CJDJ
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 8:00 pm

YOU WUSS
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 8:29 pm

MarcinG wrote:
I always use ear plugs mate...not so much because of the exhaust but the wind noise that's equally damaging over long time.

I always wear ear plugs, Because the sound of the tappets bugs me
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 10:01 pm

Sim,

I wonder...are you sure the gaskets were meant to be 59mm?
the stock ones I pulled out were bigger - 61mm (after searching the internet)

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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 10:40 pm

MarcinG wrote:
Sim,

I wonder...are you sure the gaskets were meant to be 59mm?
the stock ones I pulled out were bigger - 61mm (after searching the internet)


Err, No, I read in a thread somewhere that they were 59mm without question, So I just presumed that was the size? Did the ones you got work? I didn't change mine when I fitted the pro pipe, so I've never actually measured them, I wonder if they changed sizes for model years?
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 10:51 pm

Yeah, they work matey...I think. It's just that they did not fit in tight like the old ones (which were the same radius as the cylinder hole).

Since I've done a few miles now I will be tightening the bolts up once more so should be rock solid.

I could've sworn that I was hearing some faint whistling but I doubt that it's the gasket.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Fri May 03, 2013 11:08 pm

Just had a check on my standard exhaust, The outer flange is 60/61 mm and the hole down the exhaust is something like 35mm so even at 59mm they should be fine, once they get squeezed up they'll expand either way.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Jardine Slashcut Rumblers - to jet or not to jet...   Sat May 04, 2013 6:45 am

pledge wrote:
I don't see the point of fitting loud pipes and then fitting things to quiet them down, kind of defeats the object.
Only if you want them that loud, DB killers offer a compromise where you can still get a good db level without busting your ear drums and you still get the benifits of extra styling and the power enhancement that stock pipes can't offer
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