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A UK Site Dedicated To The Suzuki C800, VL800, VX800, M800, VZ800, VS800, C50, M50 Model Intruder / Boulevard / Marauder
 
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 Shaft drive assembly

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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:38 am

Gents,

Is there a chance that the shaft drive could be attached wrong after having the wheel off?
As in loosely or something along these lines?

I'm still looking for a reason why my bike ride feels gritty..for the lack of better word.
When accelerating, it feels like the drive does not deliver the power to the wheel smoothly hence I've started thinking about the shaft.

I checked the front wheel without the brake on so it doesn't rub....the wheel rotates nice and smooty, stops in random positions so no issue with balancing. Not sure how I can check the back in the same manner.. I'm guessing that would require taking the shaft off?

I want to go in as well and check all the key mounting points to rule out anything getting loose. Not sure which ones though.

If I'll fail to find the reason behing all that I think I will give up and pay to have the bike checked.
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simbo
.. Mechanical Tart .. .. Site Moderator ..
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:34 am

Did you grease the hub mating point to the wheel when you had the wheel off?
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:39 am

That's the thing mate... I never had the wheel off by myself nor seen when it was taken off for tyre replacement.
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simbo
.. Mechanical Tart .. .. Site Moderator ..
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:47 am

Might be worth taking the wheel off and checking ?if they've not greased it up with Molly paste you'd get a grating sound from there.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:05 am

If I'll take it apart, will I lose any fluid from the drive or is that separate?
(I just looked at Dave's how-to and answered myself)

Also, what the heck is molly paste?
(I Google'd and found it... Moly paste...darn expensive! and quite a few out there...which one?)
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a4ebh
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:50 am

Hi Marcin, Taking the rear wheel off wont make you loose any gear oil. There are several reasons you may have a grity noise comong from your bike. One of the commn faults was the lack of the moly paste grease (Lithium Base Molybdenum grease NLGI#2) applied to the propeller shaft splines. there is a thread that covers that in here. I'm currently looking at the 2005 pdf of the M50 manual. Page 10-12 under servicing suggests some reasons for noises.
If you can determine where the noise is coming from... that will narrow it down. Jack the bike up to rotate the rear wheel while in neutral.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:24 pm

Cheers.

It's not as much the noise as the sensation... normal vibrations aside.
I'll have a good read at home and try the back wheel on jack.
I'd love to hear recommendations with regards to the moly paste too... brand etc.
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a4ebh
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:49 pm

I've just been out to the garage and found a 500g pottle of 'Valvoline Valplex M all purpose long life grease'
It's a NLGI 2 lithium complex grease that contains 3% molybdenum disulphide and extreeme pressure additive. Also states being a long life grease suitable for hostile environments in difficult to service areas, hence found in my garage. Sounds just the ducks nuts for me and thats what I'll be using. From memory it only cost me about $12NZ (approx 6lbs...oops pounds)
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:19 pm

Hmm... 3%?
I've came across mentions of using stuff up to 80% content.
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simbo
.. Mechanical Tart .. .. Site Moderator ..
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:14 pm

I used the one off Ebay 60% moly paste, honda equivalent, only a little tub but enough to re do it a few times.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AS60-60-Moly-Assembly-Paste-100grm-Similar-to-Honda-60-grease-/130983911522?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item1e7f3fe062
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:30 pm

Nice one Sim... I've read about Honda substitute.
I'll order one... even if it's OK inside, I'll re-do to have this one ruled out.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:52 pm

Hmm... should the rear wheel rotate like front when lifted and in neutral? Coz mine sure don't.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:59 pm

Not really, it'll have resistance and feel heavier due to it turning the gearing in the hub, the shaft and u/v joint and whatever else inside the engine, mines not stiff but it doesn't spin freely like the front wheel.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:02 pm

Start the bike while on the stand (strapped down) and run it through the gears listening for any strange noises.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:13 pm

When I have the bike on, the only cluttery like noise is when I shift down to neutral...but thats probably because drive is disengaged and is "free"
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:50 pm

Lifted the bike, rotated the rear in neutral....actually turns quite freely...all I can hear is just hum of the drive.
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captain crash
Mentally Deficient lunatic ..... & ..... Site Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:57 pm

Hi Marcin if you need to order some final drive 60 molly paste, I think this is what you need EBay Link
Reasonable price I think but you never know if you shop around, does need to be at or above the rcomeneded 60 though ideally
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:04 pm

Sounds good to me then Very Happy Your back brake isn't too tight is it? May sound silly, but we normally tighten our rear brake with no weight on the bike, then as soon as you sit on it, it tightens up a bit due to the bike squatting a little, I've done it! and the drum got hot, so I just backed the adjustment nut off a couple of turns and all was well.

ps. have you checked the oil level in the final drive?
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:15 pm

Crash - thank you.

Sim - too tight? don't think so... I was doing the adjustment quite recently and actually loosened it up as I wanted different force at the pedal.

Hmm haven't checked the oil though....will do!
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:09 pm

Oil checked...thank God I've put the bike on the lift otherwise I'd have a massive spill :)
When I removed the bolt, the oil level was all the way to the top of the bolt hole and it was starting to flow out a bit so I've put the bolt back, quite content.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:29 pm

Just made a phone call and the oil should ideally be level at the bottom. Ideally the oil needs to be checked and topped up when the bike is in the upright position and not on the side stand
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:57 pm

That is spot on crash, the upright position is required for all levels on the bike with the engine alone requiring a (properly) run & warmed up engine and the required time lapse before checking.
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a4ebh
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:58 am

After having taken the rear wheel off the M to put a new back tyre on, I thought I'd check out the drive shaft. It's like the day I brought it thankfully and so I cleaned it up and began looking around for some high pressure grease other than the 3% moly I had in the garage. I called into the local suzi dealer to see what they used and recommended. They use Fuchs PolyPro2 which is a white lithium based ultra tacky (chewing gum, tacky) grease that is highly water resistant. So I'm giving that a go. A diesel mechanic friend called over while I was assembling things and suggested the oil filling hole position is possibly a design fault commonly found on many japanese motor vehicles, especially diffs. He suggested to fill it right up as Dave has mentioned and even squeeze a few more ml's in there if possible as it wouldn't hurt. Also weird that the hand book suggests to check all but motor fluids while bike is on the side stand.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:07 pm

a4ebh wrote:
Also weird that the hand book suggests to check all but motor fluids while bike is on the side stand.
I need to read the manual again because I thought it said it all had to be checked with the bike fully upright?
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:51 pm

a4ebh wrote:
even squeeze a few more ml's in there if possible as it wouldn't hurt. Also weird that the hand book suggests to check all but motor fluids while bike is on the side stand.
There's a blow hole on the back of the diff, if it's over filled the excess oil then comes out of the hole giving the impression of an oil leak and possibly going over the back tyre.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:32 pm

Also
A4ebh wrote:
Also weird that the hand book suggests to check all but motor fluids while bike is on the side stand
This statement would not include the final drive gear oil, it says clearly that the bike should be vertical.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:23 pm

Well pointed out Sim and Dave especially when you consider the actual thread topic, could of confused someone otherwise or get them hurt
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:27 pm

Well spotted Sim,have got my rear end stripped down doing a service tomoz.glad you mentioned that.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:44 pm

Any oil that leeks from anywhere around the rear drive will end up on your tyre, fact. No matter were it comes from at any point, either front, rear, back, side or top will eventually flow down and get spat out at the rim & tyre from the central external spinning part of the wheel that you can see where the fixed drive is visibly next to the wheel.
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a4ebh
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:19 am

 I did say a FEW extra ml's fellas. I've done 500 miles since and all is fine. Theres no sign of any oil leaks and I'm very particular about what I do and constantly check things afterwards. And your right, some newbie might take it the wrong way and go overboard. I've experienced spilt oil at the service stn and it's not nice.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft drive assembly   Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:45 am

I think that a little extra is not an issue 99.9% of the time as there is a capacity for bikes to have a little leeway.
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