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 Taildragger winter project

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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Taildragger winter project   Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:44 pm

I'm buzzing with ideas recently and Sim's clean fender just made it worse.

I want a clean fender and I'll definitely have one..but why not take it further?
I'm a huge fan on taildragger fenders and I think I can do it.
Since I can mess about with my spare fenders, I'll attempt to take the mold of the rear one, rather sooner than later.
Having achieved that I will build up and shape a fully fledged taildragger.

I'll do it or fail trying. Either way it's going to be a shed-load of fun.

Target:

Just can't stop drooling...sooo much space for custom graphics!
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:02 pm

I hope you succeed  I love those fenders! they're cooler than a dead penguin 
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Proudtexson
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:04 pm

Marcin is there anything you can't do. You are amazing. 
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:14 pm

Proudtexson wrote:
Marcin is there anything you can't do. You are amazing. 
I saw this cartoon once where every time a guy clicked his fingers a wad of cash appeared in the other hand.
No matter how much I try the damn thing just won't work.  
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Jimmyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:24 pm

Good luck with the tail dragger.....and I have to say that bike looks totally MINT !!!!

Jim.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:14 am

Everything is about personal choice, personally I don't like them but good luck with the planned mod.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:07 am

MarcinG wrote:
Since I can mess about with my spare fenders, I'll attempt to take the mold of the rear one, rather sooner than later.
Having achieved that I will build up and shape a fully fledged taildragger.
How are you planning on taking a mould, and what will you use to make the fender? will you use the original fender brace underneath for supporting a pillion or do without and go single seat option?
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:16 am

I think you can tackle it in few ways however due to the task in hand I think the best approach will be to fill the fender inside with expanding foam.
I'll build a temporary brace with cardboard to allow the foam to grow up much higher over the fender (due to taildragger being much longer and with different curvature)

Following from that, it will be a long cutting, sanding job to get the shape right.
Once happy with general shape, I will cover it with stuff that will protect the foam and allow to mold to be taken off it.

Then, it's another long process of laying down the fibre matt in such way that it'll form a solid fender.

The rest you're very familiar with.... body fillers and shedload of sanding.

I'm doing a lot of research and things might change but for now that seems to be the way.

Also, yes, it'll be done in such way that it will take the original brace. I'll leave the option for pillion seat. I'll fabricate a cap that will go over the nut so it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:55 pm

I think the seat choice planned will be important as well, the guy who's bike it has put a seat on it that helps the flow to be uninterrupted. The stock sears would not be a good thing to have with this type of fender me thinks but building one will be the thing to have in mind only with a seat choice an after thought but it wouls still look very cool with that kind of rear and just the stock riders seat put on 
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:29 pm

Very interesting idea with the crazy foam   I like it!
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:18 pm

Crash, I think that's a fair comment but at this stage I don't give a damn about the seat   It's actually one of these things where I'll always put comfort before looks (not that stock is comfy!)
If it's done right and painted, nobody will look at the seat anyway ;D
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:12 pm

Please don't think I had any thoughts of criticism in what I said, not that you implied that I did at all. I just need to be sure   
Knowing you, I think what you have planned deserves respect and is a great task that I am sure you will pull off well or die trying 
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:16 pm

Quote :
Please don't think I had any thoughts of criticism in what I said
Didn't even cross my mind my friend. 
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:50 pm

Just adding a thin bit of foam by removing and re-stapling the front seat cover makes all the difference to comfort.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:09 pm

Yeah I do remember that topic being discussed. That's probably what I'll do to start with.
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:25 pm

Mr Intruder wrote:
Just adding a thin bit of foam by removing and re-stapling the front seat cover makes all the difference to comfort.
  I did that. The plastic seat former you staple into was way harder than I imagined. Even a chunky stapler kindly lent to me by Sim struggled to bang the staples in 100%!!
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DaveC
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:35 pm

Mal - if you get over this way drop in, and i'll soon have the staples back in 100%, 5 mins job with the compressed air staple gun
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:38 pm

Excellent cheers mate  
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:16 pm

Marcin just to add to your thoughts: how about making an extention to your spare rear fender and placing a hinge on it in order for it be lifted out of the way for wheel changes ect:,with your ability to make graphics you could make the join unseen.This in theory would be much easier and give you the the same look.Bespoke parts for your bike always look great,being a one off.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:54 pm

Agreed. It would not be so hard to do in addition to the work all ready involved.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:20 pm

Great idea, considering how the new shape of fender will literally lock the wheel from taking out.
I won't go there though... I don't want any breaks in shape and making the two edges meet perfectly would be a pain in the ass, not to mention locking mechanisms that would stop the lower part from wobbling like stupid.

Love the brainstorming here though!
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twenty2
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:09 pm

Im not sure that expandable foam is a good idea. Tried that when i was marking My seat last year. The foam didnt fill out the way i planens it and got stuck to the indie of the Sydatlanten that i was trying to make a inverterad copy of.
Might be that i didnt spend enough time on preparations and waxed the seatpan enough before foami g tho. 


With the experience i have today i think i would make a mould of the existing fender from fiberglass and wrap it from the outsider of the feber. Just use alot of maskinförare tapet that you cover in aluminium tape, wax the aluminium tape popdrottningen before adding helgmat and fiberglass
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:15 am

jag förstĺr inte svenska lol!
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twenty2
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:50 am

hahah... Sorry dude.. Autocorrect on the phone.

Lets try it again on a computer ! Very Happy

The issues that i had last year with foam was that i didnt think it filled out as good as it should have.
Allso tendencies to get stuck on the thing i tried to make a mould of.

I think that i should aproach the moulding from the outside with fiberglass instead.
Tape the fender completly with masking tape, then go over it with aluminum tape. Wax aluminumtape with liquid hard wax about three times  so its realy slippry. Add gelcoat and then plaster away.

Better in english ? Wink
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:04 am

It's a very interesting idea mate, thank you. The only issue I see with this one is that the mold that I'll make on top of the fender will be bigger than original fender and I might have issues fitting it later.

PS. I got 2 aunts in Sweden near Jonkoping but so far didn't manage to learn anything else but what I said lol
Lovely country, bit cold. I had a dip in Vettern in the middle of summer and the water was freezing Very Happy
Too bad I was young when I last visited...I'd enjoy the beautiful blonde girls you got there ;D
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:25 am

Marcin the mould that you make from twenty2's idea will be bigger but then it is only the external mould. When that is then reused to recreate the fender there will be no size difference at all, just an exactly sized fender.
Good idea twenty2.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:31 am

True, brain freeze.

However, one other thing that sort of disqualifies it for me.
With it being external mold, it would be really hard to build it up and shape it up to more round taildragger form.

With inside one, I can build it up and then trim the excess and shape to my will.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:36 am

Darn site easier to extend and keep readjusting an exact copy external mould to get it right than doing the same thing to the real thing.
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Jimmyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:59 am

Great to do DIY but have you thought about a ready made one??

http://www.meancycles.com/store/main/category.cfm?id=2293

Drill, paint, fit, job done lol !!!

Jim.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:06 pm

Have you looked at the prices?

Besides...where the hell is fun in buying ready made stuff. If I won't make it myself, it ain't mine.
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Jimmyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:32 pm

Ready made? well you could say that about a lot of things you do to your bike? I reckon that £200 would cover it so its not expensive in my book??

Looking forward to your DIY mud guard.

Jim.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:38 pm

I don't think that I've spent more than £50 on any part that I've added to the bike so yup, £200 is expensive in my book.

Besides, once I have custom mold, I will be able to make as many fenders as I want and whack it on ebay. Ka'ching.
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Jimmyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:42 pm

I'll have one if its less than £50 quid then lol.....oh and that's with paint !!! 

Jim.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:48 pm

& don't forget the artwork air brushed on.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:51 pm

Jim, 
You have a strange attitude towards people that want to do something themselves mate and I don't get why. It's like you try to convince us that buying is better.

I'll make one even if it costs twice as much as one from shop.
Satisfaction and recognition in the community alone from creating one is worth it.
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Jimmyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:53 pm

Chill brother  !!! I am not knocking what you are planning just putting ideas forward !!! good luck with it pal.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:55 pm

Sorry...just thought I'm hearing knocking. :)

Chilled as a cucumber from fridge now 
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Jimmyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:56 pm

No worries......thats the down side to voiceless and faceless chatter !!!

Jim.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:24 pm

MarcinG wrote:
 buying is better.
It's Easier! Sand! Sand! Sand grr!
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Jimmyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:29 pm

you would know all about that Sim !!! lol

Jim.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:33 pm

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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:33 pm

Oh my God... Marcin started using photobucket lol! lol! 
Let's just say I got tired of logging into my hosting account.

Anyway...Just found a Volusia page on FB and was browsing user photos and found this.
Not quite the stop lights I'm after but close...


Loving this one.... that's one badass fender.
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a4ebh
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:37 pm

Love that bad ass tail dragger. I've pencilled that in for my winter project on the M.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:12 am

A hurdle in research..

Concept of filling the fender with foam is still "go" however I've just realised that if I try to put fibreglass over the foam shape of the new fender, it'll most likely burn it away and collapse during the curing process, which gets hot.

So I'm sat here at work wondering...what could I use to coat the foam prior to fibreglass layering.
Plaster springs to mind...body filler maybe? Anything really just to provide a hard surface to lay the fibreglass.

Otherwise I'll have to re-think the approach.
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fat intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:26 am

what sort of foam where you going to use
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:34 am

expanding foam mate
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:36 am

How are you getting on with it so far or are you still planning on how it will be done?
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fat intruder
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:49 am

how hot does it get? how about squirting some expanding foam out on a flat surface let it go hard then put an oven dish (that you roast potatoes in) metal thing in the oven at 200/gas mark 8 for 10 mins till hot and see what happens when you put it on the foam
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:56 am

Researching materials more than planning :/

I know it needs to be done from inside, not cast over as the new fender has bigger curvature so I need to be able to cut away on the shape.

I'll be building rigid frame to set the fender in, support it and provide extended "walling" above the original shape to build up the length.

I think I'll do better explaining if I'll draw it out...which I'll do today at home.

If I can't find an appropriate method of protecting the expanding foam cast against hot fibreglass, I might turn to stuff like air-dry clay or similar and sculpt it. It'll be heavier overall and I might risk bulging out the original fender if I'm not careful but at least once it cures, I'll be able to cast off it as much as I want.

Ah well...brainstorming.
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Taildragger winter project   Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:00 am

Morgan, I don't recall actual numbers but it's hot enough to melt through plastic cup.
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