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A UK Site Dedicated To The Suzuki C800, VL800, VX800, M800, VZ800, VS800, C50, M50 Model Intruder / Boulevard / Marauder
 
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 * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *

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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:47 pm

This may sound a bit crazy but I wondered if anyone had raised the ride height of there bike?
I am very frustrated with the bike scrapping on corners, to be honest it freaks me out & is to an extent making me a bit nervous at times. I feel like I want to throw the bike around but when the floorboards ground out I ease off the throttle when I feel like I want to wind her up and come out of the lean.
So I am thinking of raising the bike up, just wondered if anyone had any ideas as to the best way of doing it other than dog bones. Dog bones are a very simple piece of engineering that is used to lower the bike so I am presuming that I could also raise the bike in the same way.
I have not seen any dog bones for the C800/C50 M800/M50 other than the ones for lowering it but this is simple engineering that I know I can do at home but have I missed something here?
I have included a scale for making dog bones for a reduced height, so a few adjustments of the scale and the opposite will be the result, I think.
Any ideas on this subject?





Scale for making lowering bones
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:44 pm

Now thats a friggin ace idea, I will follow this with a great deal of interest.

I reckon that if you could raise the bike by as little as 1" you would almost eliminate the chances of board scrape on the average ride when you consider how much extra lean that would potentially gain.
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:48 pm

CBR1100XX Honda Blackbird Ride Height Spacers/adjuster Just an idea but it is worth looking at, a cheap mod if it works. I used to deal with Lust racing when I had the Blackbird, they do lowering links and height adjusters also dog bones, so your theory should work, ie: go the opposite way shorten the distance, it,s worth a try. You could place washers instead and keep increasing them till you get what you are looking for. I like to experiment but at times dont know what the outcome will be, just take it easy for a bit till the bike and yourself get used to the changes. As always you give a good write up on the lowering links, gives people a chance to do it themselves.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:53 pm

alfie92 wrote:
CBR1100XX Honda Blackbird Ride Height Spacers/adjuster
alfie I think your link is buggered, it takes us to our homepage!
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:00 pm

alfie92 wrote:
just take it easy for a bit till the bike and yourself get used to the changes
Very good point Alfie, & thanks for your comments.
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:03 pm

Sorry about the link guys it is on ebay Honda Blackbird height ajuster.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:31 am

The more I think about uppers, lowers, dog bones the more confused I get but it could be that I am over thinking it because I haven't had a look at the area! I need to take a proper look at the whole area myself to break down in my own mind how everything links together and pivots, what goes up & what goes down and at what point the various interactions occurs.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:27 am

I have searched the net like a mad man looking for any thread on rasing the C800/C50 M800/M50 but I can't find a single thing! lowering the bike not a problem but raising it seems to be a subject that people just haven't gone down so I'm on my own it would seem. So I will see what I can do as far as making new bones and adjusting it that way but I will also look at the suspension while I am at it. when you think about it by raising the bike by only a small amount the additional lean angle that would be achieved would be considerable.
So I am also going to look at what adjustments can be made (if they can) to raise the bike slightly without effecting the handling by way of the stock suspension. one thing to consider here is the fact that by raising the bike by way of suspension or bones adjustment is that the front rake will be reduced but more importantly the trail, this would increase how responsive the bikes steering is. however the small adjustment that I am looking for, I believe would have very little noticable change.
Another thing while I am in the suspension area I will look at is the pre-load as this could be having a major input in to how much I am grounding out on bends due to the fact that I am a fat knacker and I have never adjusted it & when consideration is given to the fact that the bike would be set up for an average weight and I am pobably well above average weight I will seriously need to look at this and make the relevant changes.
If anyone has any ideas or input on this subject then please post even if your not sure as any and all input could/may help.
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:41 am

I have just come across the link below which gives a great insight in to motorcycle suspension, it's very informative and an easy read.

Link
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:09 pm

The shock works together with the swing arm to absorb the bumps and jolts we encounter on the road. A very stiff ride would mean every time you hit a pot hole you feel like someone just wacked you in the lower spine with a bat. A very soft ride would make the rear end feel 'mushy' and sloppy and the bottom of the frame would impact every speed bump you crossed. Some where in between is the correct stiffness setting for the weight load the bike normally carries. The correct setting is found by adjusting the shock absorber, the adjustment compresses or relaxes the windings on the shock spring. A relaxed spring will compress a lot and will allow the swing arm to move up and down easily, which can result in bottoming out. A compressed spring is very stiff and doesn't allow much swing arm travel. If the swing arm can't travel much then the entire rear end of the bike lifts when a hard bump is encountered and you feel this impact in your backside. So it would seem part of my problem would definitely be the I need to adjust the pre tension to allow for the 17st it has to carry every time I sit my fat arse on it & thats without a pillion. The more we think about what is happening when we not so importantly ride in a straight line but more importantly take a corner the more we can understand why we end up scrapping the floor boards.
1st, The bike is designed to be low to the ground, it's a cruiser!!!!
2nd, Is the suspension set up for your weight, the factory set pre-tension can't be right for us all.
3rd, The centrifugal force that occurs when cornering is immense & really has only one place for release and that's your suspension & swing arm. So by ensuring that the suspension is properly pre loaded for you, we will have less compression by the suspension & swinging arm, therefore potentially keeping a higher ride height rather than it being reduced by a much bigger compression than is required.
4th, Pillion passengers will need to be taken in to consideration, if you carry them. I probably ride at least a 3rd of the time with a pillion on my bike so when I set my pre-load I shall be giving slightly more consideration to that than you may at first think is necessary. The reason for this is because as the weight increases that the bikes suspension needs to react to, we have a greater chance of becoming unstable if set to soft, with a greater potential for loss of control & all the scary shit that is contained within that subject!

So my initial plan before making new bones to raise the height of my ride (if I have to) is to increase my pre-tension which will stiffen the ride and decrease the effects of the centrifugal forces that are possibly compessing the suspention beyond what is actually required!

You will have to forgive my ramblings on this thread but I am reposting at each new thought process that I am going into.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:56 pm

WOW, I have just re read the whole thread and you are really getting deep in to this Mr I & it seems to be slowly leading you away from your original thoughts. Keep it up, Very interesting!
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Bluesman
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:28 pm

Now I'm standing back from this and thinking hmmmmm. Maybe the cruiser is what it is. If I didn't have another bike that is higher and leans more anyway I may well feel the same as I too hanker after better clearance when I'm 'in the mood'. So another tack completely is 'what about that lovely KTM you mentioned Mr.Intruder?' Not sure about raising the C800 if I'm honest - I'm thinking top heavy, but admittedly I don't know an awful lot about cruiser dynamics. I think the C800 is about 'straight lines in style' - something it does sooooo well. Other bikes have other attributes. I don't think we can expect any bike to do too much. I really fancy an 800 adventure bike like a BMW or Triumph Tiger but I won't be 'allowed' another bike for a bit! Just a bit of lateral thinking I suppose - pleased don't be offended and best of luck if you decide to go ahead with this ambitious project - it's obviously occupying a lot of your thoughts if the length of the above threads are anything to go by!
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:56 pm

I have just sold my other bike & sooner rather than later there will be another bike in the stable so to speak but that won't change what thoughts I have over the poor lean angle that at present I believe my C800 has before bottoming out!
I would also say that when we are talking about raising the bike, the amount that a bike needs to be raised to considerable increase potential lean is very minor. I would also add that crash has spotted how this thread and my thought process has changed within this thread and I am seriously thinking that by simply adjusting the suspension a lot of my issue could be eradicated.
Yes you are right it is occupying a lot of my thoughts at the moment but with that said the day that I get the bike exactly as I want it will be the day that the beginning of the end will be in sight for the bike with me as the owner. When I buy a bike I go through a process of stripping out what I don't want, adding all the bits that I do want and getting it just the way that I want it. I can see no reason why anyone should simply settle for a product because that's the way they are sold, if that was the case there would be no aftermarket products!
I already know that in about 3 years time this bike will have been stripped back to be a bobber but that's another story but the point I am making is that the day I stop trying to improve my bikes will be the day I have died!
.......
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:30 pm

I love the way this thread is going and I am following it with interest. I am enjoying watching the way you are mulling things over & then methodically moving on but still not completelly letting go of your last thought I wish I had the cash to do half the modifications that you have done let alone the thought/thinking capacity to tackle & work out some of the modidications you have done. Rock on Mr I.
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Bluesman
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:42 pm

Mr Intruder wrote:
crash has spotted how this thread and my thought process has changed within this thread and I am seriously thinking that by simply adjusting the suspension a lot of my issue could be eradicated.



I tend to skim long threads sometimes and I missed that bit! Yes I'd certainly be interested in hearing about the effects of altering the suspension - I was only looking at mine today and wondering what would happen if.......... Sometimes we start off thinking big but the really clever bit comes when we find something simple to achieve the same end.
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:47 pm

That's the good thing about this thread Blues, when you read it you can almost see him thinking.

Or may be it's just that I have a mystic meg kind of insight
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:18 pm

Wow! Just found this thread looking for measurements to make some lowers Very Happy  Now I can get some lowering bones for a 2" drop made up at work using the dimensions from the chart 
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:00 pm

Dave.... bit of lateral thinking.... if your main worry is grounding the floorboards when you chuck the bike round corners, what about swapping the boards for regular pivoting footpegs...  designed to swing up if you push it too far.

Interesting post by the way
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Two-Bears
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:32 am

Hi Dave,
Interesting thread, two years ago my mate had the same problem with the foot boards on his 1100 dragstar, we made dog bones up using a dog bone guide similar to the one you show and heightened the bike by 25mm ( we used 25mm as it is a standard hight adjustment it appears to go 25, 35, 45mm used by the manufacturers who supply kits), the problem was solved for him,,, we did also set his suspension up and fitted progressive fork springs in the forks at a later date. CJ accessories do do raising bones and also lowering bones for quite a few bikes and makes,,, they do raisers and lowering for FJR 1300,, the FJR is 270 kg dry weight its about the same as your bike so i don't think the bikes weight will be a problem,,, the 1100 dragstar is a heavy bike and i rode it and all was ok.
Another friend had the same problem with a kawasaki VN,, we took the foot boards off and fitted Kuryakyn Dually ISO-Pegs again solved the issue for him and they look good.
Dog bones aint hard to do mate with a suspension set up,,, if you don't like it its just as easy to change back.
I'm a fat twat dave and i have my M800 rear shock set on the fourth notch works great for me, i can put my pegs down at will, Have fun mate.
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:55 am

Hey John.... you say "i have my M800 rear shock set on the fourth notch "


I'm a big bloke too, and in a few weeks me & my missus plus a bit of luggage are going touring. I'm assuming my rear shock is just set to however it came out of the factory.

Wonder if I should think about altering it.... if you've altered yours was it tricky? or do you just use the weird spanner & twist the top ring?

thanks
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:35 am

I have eradicated most of the aggressive scraping by stiffening the suspension, it still scrapes but no where near as bad.
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ippikin
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:22 pm

Very interesting thread.... can anyone describe how to alter the rear suspension? It seems really hidden away! 
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:22 pm

The best advise I can give on the rear suspension alteration is,take your seats off,then the tool cover completely,your left hand side.Then to make it really easy for you take the battery out and the carrier,this will then give you loads of space to work,and yes you use the "C" spanner,if you can get away without taking the battery and carrier all the better,you can if poss put a peice of tube on the "C" spanner to give you extra leverage.Hope this helps.
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Ippikin wrote : Very interesting thread.... can anyone describe how to alter the rear suspension? It seems really hidden away!

Hi mate, if you remove the right hand side panel, you can get very easy access to the shock from there. I've just adjusted mine the same way recently, took 5 minutes from start to finish
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Two-Bears
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:47 am

Hi Mal,
I have only had my M800 a few weeks, rode it for a week then raised it up stripped seat and side panels and tool box battery box off to give the bike a good coat of ACF-50 and strip and check the brakes as the bike is new to me i always check the brakes and give the bike a service so I know ware i stand, adjusted the shock then so sorry but unable to give an easy answer as every thing was off.
Alfie and micks advise is spot on and my mate recons its easy by removing the seat and battery box,,, which ever way you do it mate it aint difficult and yes use the c-spanner.
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ippikin
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:08 pm

C-spanner? Wot C-spanner! Not one in my tool kit! Does anyone know the size that the rear shock needs?
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:11 pm

They don't do the C spanner in the tool kits on the later models  
I am not sure what size C spanner you need hopefully one of the guys with one in their tool kits will measure theirs for you as I just ooked for one and there are various sizes
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:40 pm

" />Here you go see if this helps
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:42 pm

" />Here is a full pic with number on tool R 27.5
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:15 pm

Thats great Alfie    

Here is one the same as Alfie's LINK
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Trodat
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:51 pm

Mr Intruder wrote:
This may sound a bit crazy but I wondered if anyone had raised the ride height of there bike?
I am very frustrated with the bike scrapping on corners, to be honest it freaks me out & is to an extent making me a bit nervous at times. I feel like I want to throw the bike around but when the floorboards ground out I ease off the throttle when I feel like I want to wind her up and come out of the lean.
So I am thinking of raising the bike up, just wondered if anyone had any ideas as to the best way of doing it other than dog bones. Dog bones are a very simple piece of engineering that is used to lower the bike so I am presuming that I could also raise the bike in the same way.
I have not seen any dog bones for the C800/C50 M800/M50 other than the ones for lowering it but this is simple engineering that I know I can do at home but have I missed something here?
I have included a scale for making dog bones for a reduced height, so a few adjustments of the scale and the opposite will be the result, I think.
Any ideas on this subject?





Scale for making lowering bones
I can't seem to be able to see the scales?  Is it an image?

Thanks,
Steve
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: * Not Lowers But Uppers, Gaining Ride Height *   Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:17 pm

Trodat wrote:
Quote :

I can't seem to be able to see the scales?  Is it an image?

Thanks,
Steve

It was Steve but due to photobucket blocking image sharing a lot of the photo's need redoing.
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