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Suzuki 800 Intruder Club & Forum

A UK Site Dedicated To The Suzuki C800, VL800, VX800, M800, VZ800, VS800, C50, M50 Model Intruder / Boulevard / Marauder
 
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 possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint

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comichubble
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PostSubject: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:25 am

Hi guys,
I just bought a 1997 Intruder 800, with 5k miles and for the first 50 miles, it ran fine. However, when I checked for possible leakage, I start to notice a possible leak at the joint of rear cylinder and its carb. I was not sure so I did an odor test, and it did smell like gasoline, and it did feel like oil with light brownish color. This led me to check on the cylinder head gaskets, both front and back have what looks like high-temp RTV instead of the normal thin sheet of black OEM gaskets. So I assume the RTV was put in place due to some sort of leak. Do you think this has led to the leakage at the rear cylinder-carb joint? I came to this assumption due to the fact that I read on some Q&A where it is said that cylinder head gasket failure can cause oil leakage at the cylinder-carb joint. Also, I have attached a picture where I red-circled the area where the leakage was found and the RTV on cylinder heads. If this turnout to be a major problem, should I need to look into the possibility of replacing both cylinders with OEM gaskets?
Thank you guys


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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:10 pm

I'd give it a clean and see if it re appears if the bikes running fine?, sometimes people use RTV as an extra bit of security either side of the Gasket when rebuilding things, I'm guessing 'RTV' is Silicone Gasket Sealer of some description? sorry, I'm not familiar with that term.
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OldManYam
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:13 pm

RTV is a silicone type sealer ..... if I recall correctly it stands for 'Room temperature Vulcanising', or that's what I was told several years ago (Back in the late 70's early 80's)

   Yam
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v-twin
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:36 am

I looked at the pic you have posted and I am confused (nothing new  ), you say your bike is a 97 USA Intruder but from what I can see of the carb it looks wrong to me, the intake rubber (item 42 in the image below) normally has a flange on it that bolts to the head with the carb sliding into it and being sealed by the clamp (item 45 in the image below). Or I could be totally wrong and talking out of me a**e again (again, nothing new ), any chance of a some more pics from different angles?

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comichubble
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:24 pm

Thank you all for the response, I had to take it to the shop yesterday when it started to produce whitish smoke from the exhausts - and this infuriated me so much!!!! I found oil residue on the ground adjacent to a small vapor-drain hole on the bottom of the right exhaust and some oil dripped from the part between right crankcase and final gear. I was dumb-struck but kinda expected it would happen sooner or later, worst case scenario is the guy did not maintain the bike as it should be (he told me it was last serviced in fall, 2014 --> could be, but guess not). Or simply the bike is too old and need some replacement, especially the areas with lots of rubber seals, gaskets, etc. By the way, the shop is only 2 miles from where I live, and thank God for that, because halfway the bike stalled and engine died with oil pressure and coolant indicators lighted up. I had to give it a good 2 min before restart, which it did not idle, and required me to give it a little throttle twists to keep the engine roaring. So from all of that, what do you guys think, is it going to be an expensive fix?
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comichubble
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:41 am

alright, the shop called back and said that compression test was fine. And the smoke is actually blueish, or that was what he said, and hence, he thought it is most likely the valve seals that might get rotten due to age. If repaired, the engine needs to be taken out which will require 12 hours at $85 per hour plus parts which totals $1200 for the job. I am thinking about doing it myself. Should I? Considering that the most I have gone repairing motorcycles was replacing the fuel petcock on my Superhawk and changing fork seals and oil on my SV650. I paid $1900 for the bike, is it worth paying another 1200?
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Two-Bears
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:40 am

Hello comichubble,
It is not a massively difficult job to do,,, read the manual a couple of times and address the job in a methodical manner. If you find it is going to be to daunting a project for you to do your self you can save yourself a large portion of the cost if you can remove the engine yourself and take that to the shop for them to do the technical stuff then refit it again yourself,,, a large part of that 12 hours labour charge is merely removal and refitting and that might take time but is not difficult to do and if you have the ability/confidence to do fork seals I have every confidence in your ability to remove the engine. Give the garage or your local engine machine shop a call and ask for a price to fix the valves on a removed engine,, you can possibly reduce that cost further by supplying the necessary gaskets, seals and even valves (if needed) that you can source yourself thus eliminating the shops mark up..
Good luck mate.
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comichubble
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:39 am

Thanks, Two-Bears. That is very encouraging!
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Two-Bears
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:51 am

Your welcome mate,, anything to save fellow bikers some cash so they can buy more fuel and ride more is always a good thing for me.
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:01 am

John well put.
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comichubble
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:52 pm

Does blown head gasket lead to burning oil in carbs and smoke coming out of exhaust, guys? I just spotted a bit of oil on the rear cylinder's fin that is close to the rear carb. Could it be that I just have a blown head gasket instead of rotten valve seals that was diagnosed by the shop?
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:01 pm

Strange one that mate? blown head gaskets usually create 'White' smoke from the exhaust in my experiences and I wouldn't have thought you'd get oil in the carbs, I wouldn't think you'd get oil in the carbs from worn valve seals either? unless it's getting in there from a breather pipe into the air filter box and being sucked in with the fuel/air creating a 'Blue' smoke? Do you have any pics of the oil on the fins and the gasket sealant that's oozed out around the heads?.
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comichubble
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:57 pm

simbo, here are snapshots of the oozing RTV, and I did some research to understand that this is very common even on newer years, which leads me to think that this is how it came out originally





and these show where I spotted oil, first pic is where I just found it after the ride back from the shop, second pic is when I first got the bike, after 50 miles ride home (on three consecutive fins).





this shows oil residue at the very top of the rear cylinder, if you look closely, you will see a faint yellowish line in the second pic





and this is the rear carb that I mentioned previously about the leak

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comichubble
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:05 pm

Alright, here is the update:

A friend of mine who specializes in old bike restoration came over for a business trip and had a look at the bike. He then came down with the wrenching and adjust the float in the rear and the bike runs fine now. We also temporarily replaced the fuel hose that runs to the fuel pump with a clear tubing. We also improvised a cereal box cutout as a gasket for the leaky fuel petcock. My friend had to readjust the throttle cable to a pretty tight position. Battery is rebuilt and charged for 24+ hours. After hooked up, bike started right up, took close to 10min to idle nicely on both cylinders.

Now I have to ride it enough to see whether the radiator fan will kick in.
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comichubble
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PostSubject: Re: possible leakage at rear cylinder-carb joint   Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:02 am

I also noticed today that only 5 min of idling, and the rear cylinder is much hotter than the front. Has anyone experienced this? Any input is greatly appreciated.
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