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A UK Site Dedicated To The Suzuki C800, VL800, VX800, M800, VZ800, VS800, C50, M50 Model Intruder / Boulevard / Marauder
 
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 New clutch plates which ones???

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fat intruder
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PostSubject: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:14 pm

Ok guys think my clutch plates need to be changed bit of a slip when gunning it. So I would normally choose/use stock Suzuki plates as well I think there good but before I order any I would just like to get your input on the matter.

So what would you guy's use? What have you used? And any feed back on plates that aren't Suzuki would be very helpful. bear in mind I do ride my bike quite hard on occasion. Also are there any up-rated clutch springs for my bike  and yep I will be changing the oil and filter while the job is being done

Thanks in advance for any reply's
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:16 pm

Had mine done over Christmas - my mechanic (too lazy to do them myself) fitted EBCs - came with uprated springs (15% stiffer than standard).  I think they were about £45 for the set
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OldManYam
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:06 pm

Hi Morgan,
Have you considered shimming the 4 clutch springs (Rather than the 4 back-limiter springs) to prevent the occasional slip you may be experiencing. What you describe is a common problem & it does not mean your clutch is 'shot', & there is a simple shimming 'mod' that works.
You can of course put stiffer springs in the clutch - but you will be sold a set of 8, when you only really need 4 (Again you only need to change the clutch springs & not the back limiter springs).
Its fair to say that whilst you've got the bike in bits it is easier to change all the parts, but you might be removing perfectly serviceable components.
There is another thread that describes the modification in the 'Garage - Engine, gears & Clutch maintenance' section of the forum - entitled 'Clutch Replacement', someone else started the thread, but I took some photos when I did that modification on my 'VX' - have a look through that, as it might help you (or give you some ideas). It is worth getting a spare gasket for the clutch casing before you start dismantling anything (I think pattern ones are £6-7).
Hope you get 'sorted' - it is a fairly easy job to do (either shimming, or clutch replacement).
Cheers          Yam
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v-twin
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:24 pm

I agree with Yam, I had a slightly slipping clutch on the VX and installed some washers, problem solved. Our bikes have wet clutches, unless it has been seriously abused it should last the life of the bike, my old 650 had done over 60k on the clock on its original clutch, whatever you do, do not install Heavy Duty clutch springs, you will regret it (unless you only ride for 15minutes and are built like a tank  Very Happy  ).
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:37 pm

Proper adjustment is always the starting point, these are wet clutches after all.
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OldManYam
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:56 pm

Yes - a fair point from Andrew - when you put stiffer springs in the clutch basket it can increase the effort needed at the lever. This will not seem noticeable when you first change the springs & try the lever a few times in the garage - but as Andrew says it may become more noticeable out on the road, especially if you do a lot of town riding where you are constantly using the clutch lever.
This is a good reason for only changing the 4 clutch springs & not the springs on the back-limiter side of the clutch (which you do not really want to create a change in how the back-limiter responds - stiffer springs will delay the response of the back limiter, which primarily smoothes out your down-changes - so you don't really want to change that). The after-market spring suppliers don't appear to acknowledge there are two different types of spring in the standard clutch & supply 8 identical springs.

However, Morgan, we really should have started by saying we are assuming your clutch is currently correctly adjusted (As mentioned by Dave as I was typing this reply) - By that I mean not just via the adjuster on the handlebars, but also on the adjuster inside the engine casing in front of the gear-change input shaft. (i.e. the under the casing where the clutch cable appears to go into the engine. Under there is a tappet like 'screw & locknut' adjuster for the clutch, and if that has not been properly adjusted it could lead to slight clutch slip.

Hope that helps      Yam
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v-twin
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:37 pm

Good point Yam, I had adjusted the clutch a couple of times on the VX but it did not make any difference so I did the washer fix. If you have got a micrometer check the clutch spring length and the plate thickness, the specs are in the manual.
I bought a 2nd engine for my old 650 (£40 complete - bargain I could not refuse) for spares. My clutch started to slip (2 up & headwind) and decided to investigate and the springs were just in spec so I decided to swap them with the springs out of my spare engine, managed to do about 15miles and I had to turn around and go home, you guessed it HD springs, I was in agony. Ordered a new set of Suzuki springs problem solved.
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fat intruder
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:47 pm

that's what I like lots of reply's right I'll have a look and adjust the clutch  see what happens. yeh don't worry I always fit new gaskets when doing work to my bikes. I tend to ride for more than 15 mins and I'm not built like a tank but I got a good grip hahaha. All the input is great as per usual so lets say I can change the springs for heavy duty ones but leave the ones for the limiter as standard is that right? think I'll just change the plates as well while I'm at it but will look at the shim mod. next question so if I do the shim mod I wont have to put the heavy duty springs in?
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fat intruder
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:49 pm

did it have heavy duty springs fitted at clutch and limiter??
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:32 pm

Right - that'd explain why I only had four springs changed on mine.  Yam has done a very thorough explanation about shim washers here & that was my original plan.  However, as someone else was going to be doing the job, there was not a lot of cost difference to fitting a new set of plates.  As it was, the original plates were fried when they came out (it was the previous owners first bike since passing his test, & I think he lacked "mechanical sympathy" from the other bits & pieces I've found). 

As far as riding with stiffer springs goes, can't really say I've noticed a lot of difference & I tend to do a mixed bag of riding.  I'll have to keep an eye out over the next few months
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OldManYam
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:52 pm

Hi Morgan,

Start with the clutch adjuster inside the engine casing. To do that you first slacken the handle bar adjuster, then remove the relevant casing to access the screw & locknut type adjuster. You undo the locknut and back it off - then unscrew the adjuster screw a couple of turns - then re-tighten the adjuster screw till it goes tight (make sure it is not tight because the lock nut is bottoming out). Once tight back off the adjuster 1/4 to 1/2 a turn and securely tighten the locknut. Then adjust at the handlebar as per owners handbook (basically just a slight amount of play on the lever before it pulls on the cable) .... most people will adjust this 'to taste' by feel of the biting point on the lever movement).

If you shim the existing clutch springs (4 springs) that should do the trick (Cheapest option). The washers used for shimming should be no more than 1.0mm thick (got to be aware of spring binding if you go too thick). You do not need heavy duty or stiffer springs for that shimming modification. Quite a few Suzi 800 owners have done this mod - it is 'well known'.

If you do want to fit heavy duty springs - then do that - but do not shim them. Only change the 4 clutch springs. (Leaving the back limiter springs standard).

I found my clutch plates were in good serviceable condition when I stripped the VX' down.

The 'back-limiter' device in the clutch is rather 'advanced' for the a bike of the 'VX' age and shows it was 'ahead of its time' (On market 1990-96), and goes a long way to making the shaft drive unobtrusive ..... which is one of the reasons I like the 'VX' .... it rides like a 'conventional' chain/belt driven bike, where other 'shafties' of that era had a different 'feel' to them.

Hope that helps !

Yam

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fat intruder
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:24 pm

Yam and everyone else thank you very much for the comments, suggestions and general help
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Two-Bears
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:40 am

Hello Morgan,
I assume from another post of yours reference the tyres you have a 2009 M800,,, that being correct you will not/should not have a " back limiter" type clutch they indeed have 8 springs in total,,, your clutch will have only 4 springs,,, the springs are totally different ( the overall size of the 4 spring clutch is quite significantly larger ) to the "back limiter" type of 8 springs.
Adjustment is or should be your first port of call but after that if you do fit new plates, you can fit uprated springs ( I always do) I will be very very surprised if you feel any difference at all at the leaver, that said I own and have worked on many older VZ800 marauder`s,, I have fitted uprated springs and also shimmed the springs and I have not felt any extra pressure needed at the leaver.
If you do go down the route of renewal of the clutch plates, ( it is a very straight forward job ) I think you will be surprised at how thin and how little friction material appears to be on the plates,, refere to the mamual,, and measure the plates.

Hope this is of some help mate.
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fat intruder
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PostSubject: Re: New clutch plates which ones???    Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:34 pm

yes your right John it is a 2009 vz800 (M800) my mate Wayne will be at hand to fit or watch and tell me what to do lol he's a bike mechanic by trade and has been for many years so doing it wont be a problem . I'd decided to go down the rout you suggested and I will be fitting new plates and while I'm at it will fit uprated springs that should solve all/any slipping
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