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A UK Site Dedicated To The Suzuki C800, VL800, VX800, M800, VZ800, VS800, C50, M50 Model Intruder / Boulevard / Marauder
 
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 Dash Panel

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Old Luner
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:05 pm

Is it one that picks up a signal from the low tension side of the coil ?

If so it could be picking up interference from the rest of the wiring in the dash, or it could simply be a loose connection.
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:45 pm

I may be teaching you how to suck eggs on this one Mick - if so, I apologise.  Is the tacho designed for single-fire or dual-fire coils ?  I've been looking at fitting a tacho on mine & understand that on our bikes (non FI), we're running a dual-fire, single coil (the coil fires on each cylinder stroke, so there is a "wasted" spark).  You have to fit either a tacho which is designed for dual-fire coils or one which can be programmed, such as the Daytona.  If you're using the wrong one, it'll read wrong
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:48 pm

johnboss wrote:
Might be worth getting the rear wheel of the ground and run it up and down through the gears and see what happens.  You'd be working in a stable environment, ie no wind, road vibrations etc.  At least this way you may be able eliminate some of the factors you think may be having an effect.
Good call John, I'll give that a try when I get chance
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:51 pm

Old Luner wrote:
Is it one that picks up a signal from the low tension side of the coil ?

If so it could be picking up interference from the rest of the wiring in the dash, or it could simply be a loose connection.
Yeah, get what you're saying mate but the connection is made direct from the coil to the gauge so nothing wrong with the,  I do know. Maybe interference, but the tacho is fine when the bikes stood still so I'm leaning toward John's suspicions to be honest.
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:00 pm

katsd wrote:
I may be teaching you how to suck eggs on this one Mick - if so, I apologise.  Is the tacho designed for single-fire or dual-fire coils ?  I've been looking at fitting a tacho on mine & understand that on our bikes (non FI), we're running a dual-fire, single coil (the coil fires on each cylinder stroke, so there is a "wasted" spark).  You have to fit either a tacho which is designed for dual-fire coils or one which can be programmed, such as the Daytona.  If you're using the wrong one, it'll read wrong
Thanks bud but wherever you got the info about the coils, that's certainly not the case on my bike. There are two ignition coils, one for each cylinder.
If it was the case that the coils were the wasted spark type, then I would expect that the tacho would read twice the engine speed as there'd be twice as  many signals going to it ?
Thanks for trying to help bud but I think it's either :
a) The suspension movement upsetting the balance of the needle
Or
b) Maybe something to do with the 270 degree firing order of the engine.
Once I try John's suggestion of lifting up the rear wheel and running the bike through the gears,  I'll have a better indication
I'll let you know guys for those of you considering adding a tacho to your bike.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions - the help is really appreciated !
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:38 am

Twojobmick wrote:


Thanks for trying to help bud but I think it's either :
a) The suspension movement upsetting the balance of the needle
Or
b) Maybe something to do with the 270 degree firing order of the engine.
Once I try John's suggestion of lifting up the rear wheel and running the bike through the gears,  I'll have a better indication
I'll let you know guys for those of you considering adding a tacho to your bike.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions - the help is really appreciated !

a) Can't be the suspension Mick, it was doing it rivvie barn when the bike wasn't moving.

b) my cheap electronic tacho was steady at constant revs so I wouldn't imagine the firing order having anything to do with it, it also didn't have any actual electrical connections, it just wrapped around the ht lead and worked off electrical pulses.

I'll add a 'c)  Laughing

c) you might want to look into aftermarket tacho problems & fixes instead of problems with your bike and particular tacho, I've never seen an aftermarket analogue tacho that doesn't fluctuate at constant revs, they all bounce about like a punk at a sex pistols concert

probably no help whatsoever   NTA
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:15 am

Hi Mick
Yep - you're right, I'm wrong.  Obviously I'd made the mistake of believing what I'd read on the net.  So I've just rung up Suzuki GB who confirmed that it's definitely a dual-coil, single fire ignition system.  Which kinda mucks my plans up - if Sim is right that all after-market tachos bounce, then I can't really see much point in fitting one.  I'll hold off till you've got the results of your findings - I'm awaiting the results with much interest !!!
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:10 pm

From what I've read it's trade off between stability and fast response time in the damping of the needle? a possible fix could be making a circuit that averages the pulse times over a couple of seconds to give a more steady reading, how you would do that? I've no idea 
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:21 pm

So are you saying there's pretty much no point fitting an after-market tacho ?
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:09 pm

katsd wrote:
So are you saying there's pretty much no point fitting an after-market tacho ?

Not really, I'm just saying I've never seen an 'analogue' aftermarket tacho that doesn't bounce and is smooth in working like a oem one, someone might have one that works perfectly? but I've never seen one. Digital one's don't seem to bounce so I'm guessing it's something to do with the needle speed and weights/magnets/damping.
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:14 pm

Right - I'm guessing that you should stay away from the £7.50 "Made In China" variety off ebay.  I spoke to a company at the show (after you lot did a runner !!) & they pointed me to this one - Daytona 8K RPM Gauge - before I order, I'll get a guarantee that it's going to work without bonce
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yorky
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:05 pm

Bloody Hell ...£84 quid...Mick....would be nice to see that in Santa's Sack 
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:50 pm

I thought that was quite reasonable compared to this  !!!!
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:57 pm

simbo wrote:
From what I've read it's trade off between stability and fast response time in the damping of the needle? a possible fix could be making a circuit that averages the pulse times over a couple of seconds to give a more steady reading, how you would do that? I've no idea 
I would think the only way to do that would be a custom PCB with an arrangement of capacitors ... not a practical ( if even possible ) solution. 
Damping of the needle is the issue in my mind I think.
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:48 am

So, latest on the never ending "Dash Panel" thread is : The tacho stopped working completely and I've removed it and returned it to the supplier.
When I inquired about replacement / repair under warranty :
They said " We'd be surprised if its a faulty instrument as we haven't had any of that particular model back at all"
My reply " Wouldn't you expect at least one back out of the batch you bought, electronic equipment is rarely perfectly made"
Their response " Send it back and we'll inspect it. If it turns out to be faulty, we'll replace it FOC"
I have asked for a full report on their test to minimise the chances of them bullshitting me but I'm sure that's what they'll do ultimately.
So, I'm currently searching for a used OEM part that I can modify to mount in my dash .... something like maybe a Virago 750 / 1100 tacho ( or similar ) , they're electronic and should be compatible as they are dual coil single fire V twin motors. Think I may be spending a little time on eBay in the coming weeks.
Ever started a project and wished you never had ??!!!!!!!!   shtf
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johnboss
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:40 am

Stick with it Mick, the panel looks good and it'll be worth it in the end.  You be the guru of bike dash panels and your services sought after the world over.
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:15 am

He'll be known as "dashing two job mick" Wink
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:25 am

So, the company have replied after receiving my tacho back. This is what they said :

" This range of gauges are not suitable for mounting on motorcycles. Even if the outdoor conditions do not damage them, the vibration certainly would. The needle fluctuation you mentioned is the cause of the damage as opposed to any electrical connection. Unfortunately we can not accept a warranty claim given the circumstances".

So, I'm on the hunt again ...... drat - and double drat !
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:37 am

It would have been helpful if they'd put that on their website at the outset. Dickheads

I can imagine lots of people making the same mistake mick.

Anyway that's a load of bollocks. What about people who build kit cars? They must be a prime market for this kind of aftermarket gauges, and you get exposure to the elements and lots of vibration in those too!
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:40 pm

bigmal wrote:
It would have been helpful if they'd put that on their website at the outset. Dickheads

I can imagine lots of people making the same mistake mick.

Anyway that's a load of bollocks. What about people who build kit cars? They must be a prime market for this kind of aftermarket gauges, and you get exposure to the elements and lots of vibration in those too!
I know mate, I agree but there seems little point in arguing. If the tacho had read accurately I might have been a little more bothered but as it bounced around like it did, I'm happy to put it down to experience and fit another which will work properly. 
Just got to find one now !
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v-twin
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:38 pm

Is this any good Mick:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorcycle/tachometers/warrior-chrome-mini-tacho-electronic-60mm-0-15-x-1000-rpm
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:28 pm

v-twin wrote:
Is this any good Mick:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorcycle/tachometers/warrior-chrome-mini-tacho-electronic-60mm-0-15-x-1000-rpm
Thanks Andrew but that's not really the type I'm after

Think I'll end up with this at some point :

www.moorespeedracing.co.uk/koso-digital-motorcycle-speedos/black-dial-rpm-9k-with-temperature-gauge.html

Expensive but has a strong stepper motor to give an accurate reading
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:36 pm

Twojobmick wrote:



Think I'll end up with this at some point :

www.moorespeedracing.co.uk/koso-digital-motorcycle-speedos/black-dial-rpm-9k-with-temperature-gauge.html

Expensive but has a strong stepper motor to give an accurate reading

I have the fittings for hooking up the temp gauge if you go that route on the tacho    munch  Very Happy
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:27 am

simbo wrote:
Twojobmick wrote:



Think I'll end up with this at some point :

www.moorespeedracing.co.uk/koso-digital-motorcycle-speedos/black-dial-rpm-9k-with-temperature-gauge.html

Expensive but has a strong stepper motor to give an accurate reading

I have the fittings for hooking up the temp gauge if you go that route on the tacho    munch  Very Happy
Thanks buddy ..... I'll let ya know 
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:10 pm

Mick - first trial of the Daytona Velona 0 - 8k rev counter

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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:08 pm

That is lovely looking Dave.
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johnboss
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:03 pm

I like both the Koso and the Daytona - 2 dilemma's - which to buy and who can help me fit it? I'm Ok with self assembly simple things like sissy bars and the like and reasonable with a drill, but completely lost with stuff like this
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:56 am

John ..... Could help you if you don't mind a bit of boxing !

Dave ..... Have you got the LCD display reading the time there ? I thought it was just a temperature gauge ......
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:11 am

John, I don't mind helping with the wiring mate, but would leave the mounting of the tacho to you. Got to get my own sorted first though .... thinking about this one :


Hey Dave, have you got the LED readout displaying time there ?
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:06 pm

Hi Mick.  Yes, it's displaying the time.  It displays either time, temperature (oil or water depending on where you fit the sender), max revs, or hourmeter.  You can fit a bar-mounted toggle switch, but I don't want any more clutter on the bars.  I'm not fitting the sender just yet, as I want to make sure it's all working OK before I drop the rad 

I have just noticed on the instructions (three months after buying it & studying the instructions) that the first "Product Feature" mentioned is - Stepping motor  !!!!  So should have no flicker issues then !  I have to say, it seems to be a very built unit
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:25 pm

johnboss wrote:
I like both the Koso and the Daytona - 2 dilemma's - which to buy and who can help me fit it? I'm Ok with self assembly simple things like sissy bars and the like and reasonable with a drill, but completely lost with stuff like this


John - I went for the Daytona as 
a/ it's a black casing - I didn't want chrome
b/ it was cheaper
c/ I saw it at the show & thought it was the best looking one Id seen

I don't know about the Koso, but I can confirm that it's fitted with a stepper-motor, which as Mick has pointed out previously, is essential in a bike rev-counter to eliminate flicker
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:32 pm

Twojobmick wrote:
John, I don't mind helping with the wiring mate, but would leave the mounting of the tacho to you. Got to get my own sorted first though .... thinking about this one :


Hey Dave, have you got the LED readout displaying time there ?
So, I'm told this is not suitable for my engine ..... my quest continues 
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:39 am

Why not ???
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Old Luner
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:38 pm

katsd wrote:
Why not ???



I'm curious too !
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:46 pm

No idea guys ..... It's programmable for pulses per revolution apparently but I've told the ( German) seller which engine I'm putting it on and how I'm connecting it and he said " Nein ! Zis is not suitable for your engine. Obey orders or you vill be shot! " ( figuratively speaking of course, he didn't really say that Very Happy ) 

I don't wanna spend £80 only to find out it's not right so that's that !

Beautiful piece of kit though .......
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:55 pm

So now I'm looking at this one - awaiting a reply from the seller to check the spec / suitability as detail are a bit sketchy on it
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:18 pm

Nice. Main thing is the RMD typeface is almost exactly the same as we use for SUZUKI INTRUDER in our forum logo, so that must be a good sign Wink
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:41 pm

That look good.  Had you considered the Daytona ?
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:50 pm

Have to say Dave, the Daytona unit works great and looks perfect on your bike mate, but it doesn't give me the aesthetics that I'm wanting for mine. Don't forget,  I'm flush mounting mine in to a dash panel. Also,  I preferably want a black face / orange needle to match the other instruments on the dash ( although the VDO one I posted looked great with a white face I thought )
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:53 pm

Fair point Mick.  You could fit it into a dash panel by making up a U clamp, but I appreciate completely about aesthetics - form over function works every time for me !!!
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:01 pm

New rev counter arrived today - won't get chance to test it until the weekend though. Glasses xase behind itvgivesxsome idea of scale (80mm diameter ). 
Report to follow !
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:02 pm

Looks good Mick - hope you have better luck with this one.
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:57 pm

Twojobmick wrote:
New rev counter arrived today - won't get chance to test it until the weekend though. Glasses xase behind itvgivesxsome idea of scale (80mm diameter ). 
Report to follow !

Looks good Mick   you might wanna try removing those glasses from the case pal  Laughing
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:12 am

Nothing to do with glasses mate - just a combination of a small ( phone) screen, chipolata fingers and not looking at what I'd typed before I sent it ...... Plus I'm getting old ! 
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:34 pm

So, new rev counter is now fitted and working and having just ridden down to Squires to road test it I can confirm it reads accurately and is steady as a rock ( finally ! )
Now need to tidy up the aesthetics with a new dash panel and make the connections to all instruments more professional, then all is done.
Must say I'm really chuffed with how the tacho fits in with the themE of the dash ( black face / orange needle ) & with its performance. Cost me £81 Inc delivery. Should have gone with this option first ...... Note to all considering fitting an aftermarket tachometer - forget anything below £75 & make sure it is operated by a stepper motor
Video below .........


Last edited by Twojobmick on Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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hawktheslayer
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:57 pm

Does look good, just remember to keep your eyes on the road and not on the cockpit dials!
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:08 pm

Looks good Mick - glad you finally got it sorted. Took mine out today - same as you, no flicker. Good point to make - don't buy cheap, get a proper unit. Well done
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peardrop3
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:48 pm

Looking good Mick!
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:35 pm

Hello!
Twojobmick shared a video with you.


View Video, http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: Dash Panel   Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:47 pm

Really pukka mick, great job. Glad you got it sorted in the end Wink
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