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A UK Site Dedicated To The Suzuki C800, VL800, VX800, M800, VZ800, VS800, C50, M50 Model Intruder / Boulevard / Marauder
 
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 HELP. Bike won't turn over

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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:40 pm

Hello, all. I have a 1997 VS800 and it has been a dream.. until now. Last night, engine would turn over, but wouldn't start. I could hear the starter firing, but the battery was too low. Charged it over night and tried it again today, but got nothing. No sound at all, even when the key is turned to the ON position, kickstand is up, bike is in neutral, kill switch is turned to the run position, fuel switch is on, clutch is pulled in and the ignition button is pressed. Nothing happens, but the lights and horn all work, so it makes me think it's not a battery issue. Maybe a starter or blown fuse of some kind? Total newbie when it comes to mechanic work on a bike, but I catch on fast. Any ideas for me? Thanks!

Max
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v-twin
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:06 pm

If you have your lights on when you press the start button do they dim/go out?
If they do, battery is dead.
If they do not, could be a switch, starter relay, fuse or even the starter motor. Do you own a multi-meter??
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:21 pm

No, they don't dim when trying to start the bike. I was able to roll start the bike (ride down a slight hill, put bike into second gear and release the clutch) and it started right up. From what I know, that points to the battery being bad, correct? I don't own a bike stand, so dropping the battery out of the bottom to get it tested will be interesting. No, I don't have a multimeter but I might go buy one today. Is there any way to get a reading without dropping the battery out?
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yorky
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:40 pm

Might not be battery.
Could be a bad connection on battery, bad earth connection, bad connection on starter etc. all worth checking.
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Lowey
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:40 pm

If the bike starts on a roll, then this would indicate the starter motor is at fault or power is not getting to the starter motor, checking fuses would be a good place to start. The battery may be ok as the lights do not dim when the starter is pressed.
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:12 pm

Fuses are under the seat, correct?
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:45 am

Not sure on yours... On my m800 some are under the seat, but others are accessed via a side panel.
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:39 am

Have a look in the General Maintenance section on the forum mate. There are links to various maintenance manuals here on this link

Maintenance Manuals
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:54 pm

Found the fuses and none are blown. Dropped the battery out, hooked it up to a battery charger and brought it up to 100%. Lights and all still work, but won't start. Hate to do this, but might just take it to a shop. Don't know how to test a starter or anything like that, so I feel like I've hit a wall. Any other suggestions before I call them?
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Lowey
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:40 pm

I'm sorry but that's about all I could think of, however there are some very knowledgeable members on this forum, I am intrigued why none of them have made any suggestions. Come on guy's try and help a him out if you can.
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:43 pm

I appreciate the help, Lowey. I want to learn as much as I can about my bike, including how to fix issues like this. If I take it to a shop I don't get to learn anything, and that's half the fun so I want to stay away from that if at all possible.
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simbo
.. Mechanical Tart .. .. Site Moderator ..
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:47 pm

Try cleaning the contacts on the starter switch and all the other switches involved with breaking the circuit.
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:10 pm

I'll take a punt on it being a starter solenoid.....
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mally
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:21 pm

its not side stand switch or cluch switch use a jumper wire to join the wires to make the cornecion
last thin put a screw driver across the soleniod
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:09 pm

Sorry Mally, but that didn't make any sense to me. Any way you could clarify? Remember, I'm new to working on bikes and need things to be explained thoroughly. Thanks!
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Twojobmick
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:13 am

MaxAeschlimann wrote:
Sorry Mally, but that didn't make any sense to me. Any way you could clarify? Remember, I'm new to working on bikes and need things to be explained thoroughly. Thanks!
A solenoid is an electro - mechanical switch that engages the starter motor Max.
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mally
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:53 am

if you have a side stand switch follow the wires back to dicornect it and were you have dicornected it put some wire in the block to join the together to make a current if bike starts the side stand swith as gone . do the same for the front one as well . under the cluch  all you doing is bypassing the switch so if bike starts you will know witch one .
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:26 pm

UPDATE- Bought some contact cleaner and have cleaned all wire connectors under the seat. Took the ignition switch module completely apart, cleaned it all and reassembled. Wanted to make sure the spring behind the ignition button was making solid contact and still in place. When starting the bike, I hear a "click" which seems to be coming from the starter solenoid. I charge my battery via the starter relay from the starter solenoid to the battery. This link showed me how to do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppjTfy_GS5k When I thought the problem was the battery, I roll started the bike and drove to an auto parts store to get the battery tested. The design on this bike is interesting and terminal clamps couldn't be put on without dropping the battery out. I told him I charged it via the starter solenoid and he put the voltage meter on the two bolts showed in the movie to see if he could get a reading that way. When he did that, the bike turned over and was about to fire up, but he disconnected the reader. Not sure if this shows the solenoid is bad or not because I'm not knowledgable, but the starter solenoid is my best guess. I was told to clean the battery terminals, connecting wires, and all starter solenoid connections with a wire brush and see if it was a connection issue. Will try that and report back. In the mean time, any other advice?
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OldManYam
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:35 pm

Hi Max ..... your comments of :-

I told him I charged it via the starter solenoid and he put the voltage meter on the two bolts showed in the movie to see if he could get a reading that way. When he did that, the bike turned over and was about to fire up, but he disconnected the reader. Not sure if this shows the solenoid is bad or not because I'm not knowledgeable, but the starter solenoid is my best guess. I was told to clean the battery terminals, connecting wires, and all starter solenoid connections with a wire brush and see if it was a connection issue.

That sounds to me as though your solenoid is likely to be defective. With the meter in place it was probably providing an effective 'bridge' over the solenoid terminals. I suspect the dealer disconnected his meter to prevent damage to the meter. But in effect what he had done is similar to the suggestion of holding a screwdriver over the solenoid - this is a simple check to bypass the solenoid to prove that is the defective component. A screwdriver (or any other suitable piece of metal) can be used to bridge the solenoid .... & if the bike starts up with the terminals bridged then the fault is within the solenoid. These are fairly cheap to replace as there are aftermarket parts that fit.

It is not good to leave a permanent bridge over the solenoid terminals as you are likely to b urn out part of your wiring loom - but a short term test bridging the terminals should not do any harm.

Hope that helps.
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:10 pm

Yam, great advice! I didn't really understand the advice on how to bypass the solenoid, but you made it clear. I used a wire brush on the battery terminals, cables, starter solenoid connections, etc. Then I used a screwdriver and when I touched the positive and negative posts, the bike fired right up. What was weird is that the key wasn't in the ignition or turned on, yet the bike cranked right up. I assume this means I need to replace the solenoid, correct? If so, would this one work for my bike? www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Relay-Solenoid-Suzuki-VS800-VS-800-GL-Intruder-1993-1994-1995-1996-1997-/301835341440?hash=item4646c9ce80:g:eQ8AAOSwZ1lWgNgQ&vxp=mtr
This is a cheap part but I want to make sure it's the right one. Thanks!
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Lowey
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:16 am

I'm pleased you seem to have come up with the answer to your problem, as for the part on ebay it does have VS800 listed also the year of your bike, at the price it worth getting. I agree Yam had explained it very well, well done Yam for taking the time to help this member out.
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:55 pm

Thanks Lowey! Purchased the starter solenoid and it's en route to my house. Will update after swapping out the new part.
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mally
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:21 pm

max sorry could not explain about bridgining your solenoid  like yam as glad you found the problem
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:25 pm

It's ok Mally! Your instructions weren't bad. I'm just new to working on motorcycles, so I didn't quite understand what you were saying. I am out of town for the next 3 days, but I'm hoping the new starter solenoid will be waiting for me at my house when I get back. If so, I'll be putting it on and will make sure to keep y'all updated. I have learned a lot about my bike from working through this issue, and I have this group to thank for it! You all have been great.
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:43 am

Just got home, took the new solenoid out of the box, took the old one off of my bike. Realized the two wiring harnesses don't match. The one on the new solenoid is far too small to plug up to the existing harness receiver. Wondering if I should cut the old solenoid's wiring harness off, cut the new solenoid's wiring harness off, then splice the old harness onto the new solenoid's wires and see if that works. Thoughts?
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:31 am

Depends on how soon you want the bike on the road.  If I had time, I'd be onto the supplier asking for the correct one.  If I need it sorting straight away, I'd splice the connectors over - I assume that the bracket mount will fit?  Although at that price, I wouldn't be too fussed about it having a long life span !!
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:51 am

I want the bike on the road asap, and I'd have to pay return shipping. On a $9 part, that's not even worth it. I think I'm just going to try to splice it up, connect it with some waterproof wire connectors and see how it goes. Will update tomorrow!
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:52 am

Nothing ventured - good luck !!
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:41 am

I wouldn't alter the wiring... Say the new one packs up after a year, you're then tied into finding another solenoid with a matching harness or butchering the wiring again.

Surely it's the suppliers fault if they advertised it as fitting your bike. With low value items a supplier will sometimes just tell you to chuck the part away and they send an alternative ... Especially if you bought on eBay, they don't like a negative feedback.
Good luck with it mate.
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:10 pm

I think what he was intending to do Mal, was cut the connector off the old u/s solenoid, then splice it onto the new solenoid.  I don't think he was going to cut the connector off the wiring loom, just the old solenoid (does that make sense).  For $9.00, if it don't work, you're not in a bad place, especially as he needs the bike sharpish
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:20 pm

Dohhhhh. Ignore my post
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:48 pm

Could it be worth removing the wires from the socket/plug using a pin and then just swapping them to the socket/plug that fits? rather than cutting anything, or are they different pins in the plug/socket too?
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MaxAeschlimann
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:43 am

I'm pretty sure the entire wiring was different, so I decided to simply splice the wires and swap out the wiring harnesses. Drumroll........ IT WORKS! I put everything back together and have been enjoying it today before it rains this week. HUGE thank you to everyone on this group! I joined another forum for my other bike, and they SUCK compared to you all. I can't thank you enough! :)
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bigmal
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:46 am

Agreed
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katsd
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:52 am

Good news Max - nice one !
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v-twin
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:34 am

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OldManYam
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:16 am

Great news Max .... glad you got it sorted ! ..... & I agree .... it is a good forum site

Cheers        Yam 
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alfie92
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:17 pm

Excellent result, well done.
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ardie
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:27 pm

result max and your spot on about this site as well
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Mr Intruder
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PostSubject: Re: HELP. Bike won't turn over   Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:13 am

Nice one, well pleased you got a result.
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