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A UK Site Dedicated To The Suzuki C800, VL800, VX800, M800, VZ800, VS800, C50, M50 Model Intruder / Boulevard / Marauder
 
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 Open pipes and burnt valves

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Bluesman
Very Valued VIP Member
Bluesman


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSat Aug 18, 2012 8:47 pm

It would appear generally accepted on here and elsewhere that if baffles are completely removed and there is no increased air intake, performance will decrease somewhat, the valves will burn and the the noise will be awesome. I have no reason to doubt the first two and can certainly vouch for the third! When I run with straight through pipes (about 1 day in 7) the Intruder sounds better than practically any other bike I've heared and makes me feel bloody great. I haven't got the balls to run it like that all the time and admittedly the noise is a bit antisocial but I get such a lot of positive reaction (eg taxi driver winding down window and saying 'that is a great sounding engine mate') it makes me prouder than ever of the bike. I daresay if I fitted a new air filter and Power Commander or similar, set up accordingly, I could run it like that all the time without worrying about valve damage and enjoying a bit of enhanced torque and bhp.

I wonder if any members running straight through pipes without any other modification, have actually experienced any engine damage to their Intruder. I am not doubting any of the theory but would be interested to hear any feedback on the subject.
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captain crash
Mentally Deficient lunatic ..... & ..... Site Moderator
captain crash


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSat Aug 18, 2012 10:10 pm

Isn't that a bit like asking a question to someone who has already left the building Open pipes and burnt valves 1993399755

I would imagine that in most situations like that the owner would probably sell the bike long before a complete faliure had happened in the valves. Probably due to a lack of power caused by the partially burnt valves but not diagnosed and probably just thinking they had out grown the bike without realising.
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Bluesman
Very Valued VIP Member
Bluesman


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSat Aug 18, 2012 10:38 pm

Perhaps there is someone who has buggered up their bike and knows it! We have several hundred members so when it comes to Intruder 800 experience we must have the edge on combined experience worldwide. Anyone...?
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ozrider
Member
ozrider


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 1:23 am

I had similar questions when I changed mine, I searched the internet and the only real references to valve burnout are when they are not regulary adjusted.

Even then they are talking huge milage numbers.
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Bunso Steel
Valued Member
Bunso Steel


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 10:54 am

my bikes done about 4000 miles and hasn't had its first service yet. last year I questioned the dealer about the power output of my bike (this is before I fitted the exhausts) and they asked me to get it serviced and the valves checked because they could be burned, reducing power. If its true, I havent noticed any difference since putting the new exhausts on, and I have done another 1000 miles since then. should probably get it serviced anyway
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Mr Intruder
Suzuki800.com Founder ... & ... Senior Administrator
Mr Intruder


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 11:27 am

The valve issue is known throughout the industry and has been since before I was born, so to try to disprove this is ridiculous.
People that ride around with straight threw un-baffled pipes without either re-jetting or adjusting the fuel injection, will be in a minuscule minority.
I am bowing out of this one as I don't want to be party to any thread that may encourage a non mechanically minded person to risk fucking up there bike.
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oiler
Saint Oiler the 1st
oiler


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 11:45 am

As a non-mechanically minded rider (and OAP) awaiting my new C800, I've simply asked the dealer to fit my Highway Hawks, and do whatever else is necessary in terms of re-mapping (whatever that is) etc. You have to trust someone, and as all my biking life, beginning when helmets were optional, all I've done is polish and ride, in that order I haven't got much option. Could learn of course, but technical stuff doesn't really grab me.
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oiler
Saint Oiler the 1st
oiler


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 11:50 am

Oops ! id myself a grave injustice. "Long ago and far away" (and this is no fairy story) in my youth I oiled a clutch cable. I remember buying some sort of blue coloured thingy that somehow forced the oil down inside the cable. SO, I'm not entirely without technical skill, but that was enough to do me for a lifetime !
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pledge
Valued Member
pledge


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 12:14 pm

oiler wrote:
As a non-mechanically minded rider (and OAP) awaiting my new C800, I've simply asked the dealer to fit my Highway Hawks, and do whatever else is necessary in terms of re-mapping (whatever that is) etc. You have to trust someone, and as all my biking life, beginning when helmets were optional, all I've done is polish and ride, in that order I haven't got much option. Could learn of course, but technical stuff doesn't really grab me.

This subject of aftermarket exhausts, air flow and fueling is a minefield and a bit baffling (pun not intended) if you don't understand it, how I don't. So when I had my aftermarket exhausts it worried me as to whether it was harming my engine or not, so I had a Power Commander fitted which sorted all the rumbling and backfiring (which I have to say wasn't too bad) out, and gave me peace of mind.
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oiler
Saint Oiler the 1st
oiler


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 12:26 pm

Thanks. I will raise the issue of a Power Commander when I pick up the bike. Can't wait (infantile or what?) Open pipes and burnt valves 433968
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pledge
Valued Member
pledge


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 12:35 pm

oiler wrote:
Thanks. I will raise the issue of a Power Commander when I pick up the bike. Can't wait (infantile or what?) Open pipes and burnt valves 433968

You welcome, the wait will be worth it these bikes are brilliant.
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Bluesman
Very Valued VIP Member
Bluesman


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PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 1:49 pm

Sometimes it's not bad being non-mechanically minded because you don't worry too much! I leave the worrying to my dealer who usually suggests anything I do or think is a bad idea! Well I pay him to do the work so he can worry for me if he likes Open pipes and burnt valves 2740622253 . Still no one with problems......well perhaps the Suzy is a tougher old bird than we think! Mine seems to be running better every day, pulls like dream and the engine seems very happy (to me any way). I took up the question of whether the bike would handle the new pipes without an extra processor with the guy who sold them to me (Custom Cruisers Bournemouth (or is it Metric, can't remember ?). He said he fits loads and loads and if I were to fit a processor I would be wasting my money. Don't know about this but at the time I was happy not to spend any more dosh. I would like to think that all the theory was manifested in people jumping up and saying yes I ran straight through pipes and boy I wish I had not cos look what happened to me - perhaps they will. For the moment I will continue to enjoy my lovely sounding and performing bike with baffles out or in as the mood takes me. If I feel sufficiently worried in due course I will heed the advice and change my habits. I am always grateful for advice and information received on here, particularly on tecnical matters others know more about than me. I suppose it's my bike and I take chances smetimes both in the way I ride and the way the bike is set up. One of the nice things about this forum is that the technical and non technical sides of members balance each other out quite nicely.

Open pipes and burnt valves 881924
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pledge
Valued Member
pledge


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PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2012 5:11 pm

Got to agree with that the more you know the more there is to worry about, however as for the dealer doing the worrying, he won't care or worry about how your bike is set up his only worry will be is that you pay him if he has to put anything right.
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exile
Member
exile


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PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeTue Aug 21, 2012 9:05 pm

Seems to me we.ve been here before !! and the ol'skool and simplest way to check how your motor is running vis a vis too lean/ too rich !

Check the colour of your plugs !!!

If it's running lean eventually you may sustain valve damage ! But remember that these days we're all unleaded , so the valve seats themselves are hardened compared to the old days ...

So dig out an old Haynes manual ... and it will tell you all you need to know !!

Of course if your plugs tell you you're running too lean or too rich ... well at least you know there's a problem .. !
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captain crash
Mentally Deficient lunatic ..... & ..... Site Moderator
captain crash


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeTue Aug 21, 2012 11:24 pm

All good advice unless your names Bluesman because running as he does only once per week with a straight through un baffled pipe he won't get a correct reading
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Bluesman
Very Valued VIP Member
Bluesman


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeWed Aug 22, 2012 11:08 am

Spoke to Jon Chant who supplied my pipes and gave the original advice for fitting without a processor. He said he had not come across anyone running Short Cuts without baffles so wasn't sure. That seems fair enough. I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject and it appears that removing the baffles could cause valve burn although I do have a 'middle route, with extra wadding in my pipes to reduce the bore a bit. I understand that valves are probably less likely to burn with modern bikes compared with older ones due to the metal used but this is only what I've read and there are many, many 'experts' out there puting in their 4p! At the end of the day - it's my bike and my choice. A bit like when I smoked - I knew the risks but the pleasure led me to largely ignore them. Problem for me is that the sound is so impressive with the baffles out! Still the nuisance factor is probably more of a worry to me than the technical issue - I run them open, not that often so I would imagine my bike would go on for many years running ok - that's my view. I don't really want the bother and expense of a procesor as I have other things I'd rather spend money on. My advice to anyone on this site is keep your baffles in as the exhaust was tuned like that by the manufacturer. Oh yes and give up smoking Open pipes and burnt valves 852880

Not much feedback on this topic but I can read between the lines! Thanks for the input - the info on this site, as ever, is always right up there with the best.
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pledge
Valued Member
pledge


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeWed Aug 22, 2012 12:31 pm

Bluesman wrote:
Spoke to Jon Chant who supplied my pipes and gave the original advice for fitting without a processor. He said he had not come across anyone running Short Cuts without baffles so wasn't sure. That seems fair enough. I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject and it appears that removing the baffles could cause valve burn although I do have a 'middle route, with extra wadding in my pipes to reduce the bore a bit. I understand that valves are probably less likely to burn with modern bikes compared with older ones due to the metal used but this is only what I've read and there are many, many 'experts' out there puting in their 4p! At the end of the day - it's my bike and my choice. A bit like when I smoked - I knew the risks but the pleasure led me to largely ignore them. Problem for me is that the sound is so impressive with the baffles out! Still the nuisance factor is probably more of a worry to me than the technical issue - I run them open, not that often so I would imagine my bike would go on for many years running ok - that's my view. I don't really want the bother and expense of a procesor as I have other things I'd rather spend money on. My advice to anyone on this site is keep your baffles in as the exhaust was tuned like that by the manufacturer. Oh yes and give up smoking Open pipes and burnt valves 852880

Not much feedback on this topic but I can read between the lines! Thanks for the input - the info on this site, as ever, is always right up there with the best.

Spot on YOUR BIKE YOUR CHOICE.
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captain crash
Mentally Deficient lunatic ..... & ..... Site Moderator
captain crash


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PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeWed Aug 22, 2012 5:08 pm

Sounds like you prpbably just misunderstood him originaly then John
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alfie92
Very Valued VIP Member
alfie92


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PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeWed Aug 22, 2012 10:09 pm

Very good point made there John,must be honest you asked

I wonder if any members running straight through pipes without any other modification, have actually experienced any engine damage to their Intruder. I am not doubting any of the theory but would be interested to hear any feedback on the subject.

Not much feedback on this topic but I can read between the lines! Thanks for the input - the info on this site, as ever, is always right up there with the best.

This is the reason I did not reply to the topic,my bike has been modified by myself,as I suspect a lot of other bikes on the forum.
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Bunso Steel
Valued Member
Bunso Steel


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeThu Aug 23, 2012 9:24 am

My bike is the same set up as Johns, stock with Highway Hawk shortcuts. I only ran without the baffles for little while because a screw rattled loose and one of the baffles got fired out the back, so I thought I'd take the other one out to match! Since then I have had the baffles in, and I have noticed what seems like less power, but I think it could just be me being more conservative with the speed and the throttle because of the noise it makes. There is an old thread on here somewhere that says Loud pipes make you slower. Well they do for me it seems Open pipes and burnt valves 852880

I'm going to get the bike serviced soon and the valves checked. If there is any damage to report then I'll let you guys know
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Bluesman
Very Valued VIP Member
Bluesman


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PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeThu Aug 23, 2012 12:28 pm

Bunso Steel wrote:
My bike is the same set up as Johns, stock with Highway Hawk shortcuts. I only ran without the baffles for little while because a screw rattled loose and one of the baffles got fired out the back, so I thought I'd take the other one out to match! Since then I have had the baffles in, and I have noticed what seems like less power, but I think it could just be me being more conservative with the speed and the throttle because of the noise it makes. There is an old thread on here somewhere that says Loud pipes make you slower. Well they do for me it seems Open pipes and burnt valves 852880

I'm going to get the bike serviced soon and the valves checked. If there is any damage to report then I'll let you guys know

Sounds like me - mostly with baffles in. My plugs were fine at the service - be interesting to see how yours are. As for power I find more torque with baffles in and more top end with no baffles. My smile is bigger with them out -more sanity with them in!

I agree that noise makes you go easier on the throttle, especially when a Open pipes and burnt valves 1792677282 is nearby!
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captain crash
Mentally Deficient lunatic ..... & ..... Site Moderator
captain crash


Open pipes and burnt valves Empty
PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeFri Aug 24, 2012 12:19 am

Your plugs should fine if you are running the majority of the time with the baffles in as they will show the deposit from how they are mostly run.
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Freemo
Member
Freemo


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PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeFri Aug 24, 2012 7:15 am

I'll be servicing my bike in the next month, so I'll pass on any info I can as my pipes are just two pipes with nothing in them at all
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Mr Intruder
Suzuki800.com Founder ... & ... Senior Administrator
Mr Intruder


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PostSubject: Re: Open pipes and burnt valves   Open pipes and burnt valves Icon_minitimeFri Aug 24, 2012 5:39 pm

Now that really will be very interesting Martin, we will look forward to that mate Open pipes and burnt valves 3498837457
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