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A UK Site Dedicated To The Suzuki C800, VL800, VX800, M800, VZ800, VS800, C50, M50 Model Intruder / Boulevard / Marauder
 
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 Starter disable switch...anyone?

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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 1:50 pm

Hi guys been awhile.

Question... recently there have been a rash of thefts in my rural area.  Saddles, Bridals, Tools, & even an E-Bike (electric scooter big fad around here) and an attempted theft of my neighbours Kawasaki.  It appears that the thieves ripped apart the ignition and tried to "hot wire" it.  When I was talking to my neighbour he said that what appeared to deter them was

1. he made a hidden kill switch that prevented the bike from being able to start forcing them to have to push or lift it onto or into whatever they were going to haul it in.
2. bike is a little heavy to lift onto or into whatever they were going to haul it in.

He suggested that I do the same... (not currently worried because my bike is sitting in my dining room.... Wife isn't pleased lol)

Just wondering if anyone has done this or if they can suggest some good alarms... web searches reveal numerous hits but it would be nice to have opinions on some of them...
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captain crash
Mentally Deficient lunatic ..... & ..... Site Moderator
captain crash


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 4:29 pm

I know nothing about the subject but I would have thought that a kill switch placed in a single wire that looped from the correct on at the ignition switch would of been easy to do. Even for someone like me it would be simple I would have thought, all I would of done is pull off one wire at a time til I found the one that would not let the bike start unless it was in place and then do it from that
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 4:48 pm

you would need it in a more hidden wire... more along the lines of the wires coming form the negative side of the coils so that bike systems would have power but without the switch being in the on position the coils wouldn't fire... or you can interrupt the starter motor at the starter realy....

More or less I was just picking brains here to see if anyone has done this or can recommend a good alarm....I have some ideas for a passive system....(from the12v.com)
Starter disable switch...anyone? Starte10

or setting up an interrupt switch...basically another engine kill switch but hidden...
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captain crash
Mentally Deficient lunatic ..... & ..... Site Moderator
captain crash


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 4:51 pm

Very good idea, someone will read this and do it at some point for sure Starter disable switch...anyone? 184121345
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simbo
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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 5:25 pm

Very interesting idea Starter disable switch...anyone? 3498837457 I wouldn't fancy pushing an Intruder too far! never mind lifting one in a van Starter disable switch...anyone? 249703
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 5:54 pm

more I look into this I'm thinking using the negative wires coming from the coils and adding a diode/relay and toggle switch.... this would also prevent push starting it as then there would be no spark on either coil.. until switch it in on position...
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Mr Intruder
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Mr Intruder


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 6:18 pm

Your a blessing in disguise, I gotta add that to my to do list. Starter disable switch...anyone? 3498837457
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smart
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smart


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 8:26 pm

Sorry maybe it's me being thick isnt this the same as a alarm immobaliser works
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Mr Intruder
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Mr Intruder


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 8:42 pm

Sure is. Starter disable switch...anyone? 3005623951  but this can be done for a couple of bob or a good route around in the shed.
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smart
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smart


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 9:13 pm

That's what i thought it's the same as i installed on my sons mini van when we finished restoring it because the lock were crap
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 9:21 pm

Hmm...trying to nick a cruiser by starting it and driving off... 100db exhaust would probably take them by a little surprise. But most likely the neighbours wouldn't bother to look.
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 3:14 pm

MarcinG wrote:
Hmm...trying to nick a cruiser by starting it and driving off... 100db exhaust would probably take them by a little surprise. But most likely the neighbours wouldn't bother to look.
Problem in my area... between me an my neighbour there is about 1-2km worth of fields.....
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 6:39 pm

Ouch...I see your point
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icetechaus
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icetechaus


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeTue Nov 26, 2013 4:08 am

For the sake of deviousness I would use the side stand switch function rather than an ignition kill switch because then you can screw with their minds. They could get the bike started but when they put it into gear it would die every time and it would be very easy to hide the mod as the wiring is mostly behind covers any way.

Look at the wiring diagram  on page 7-10 in the manual that you can find here LINK
By adding in another switch in series with the side stand switch you can make the bike function the same as if the side stand was down and hide the switch anywhere you like.

Otherwise you could do a similar thing with the clutch lever position switch by tapping into the wires where they are hidden in your headlight.
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeTue Nov 26, 2013 4:20 am

There are many possibilities, ignition being the most common.... with that in mind I like your idea... nobody would expect that.... and seeing as my wife isn't talking to me I can still screw with someone.  This could be fun.... Read my recent topic lol.....Starter disable switch...anyone? 3498837457 

LINK
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MarcinG
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MarcinG


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeTue Nov 26, 2013 2:41 pm

icetechaus wrote:
For the sake of deviousness I would use the side stand switch function rather than an ignition kill switch because then you can screw with their minds. They could get the bike started but when they put it into gear it would die every time and it would be very easy to hide the mod as the wiring is mostly behind covers any way.

Look at the wiring diagram  on page 7-10 in the manual that you can find here https://www.suzuki800.com/t448-maintenance-manuals-links-pdfs-library
By adding in another switch in series with the side stand switch you can make the bike function the same as if the side stand was down and hide the switch anywhere you like.

Otherwise you could do a similar thing with the clutch lever position switch by tapping into the wires where they are hidden in your headlight.
Genius!! And should be easy to do as well... a simple inline kill switch.
I'd be more than willing to do this one for mine.

I'll watch this topic with great interest.
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mo800
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mo800


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeWed Jan 01, 2014 8:22 pm

Hi just bought a hawk 60 alarm off ebay for £40 it does everthing in the book,check it out full system,immobiliser,siren,talking speaker,indicators,remote start key fob arms it self after 60 second when the ingition been turn off if you like.
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeThu Jan 02, 2014 12:15 am

Nice...good buy  Starter disable switch...anyone? 3498837457
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twenty2
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twenty2


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeThu Jan 02, 2014 6:14 pm

I have a ABUS Granit lock with a 90dB alarm in it. Makes quite alot of noice.
When im gonna have the bike standing for a while i normaly just take away one of the battery cables. if someone should try anything.
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mo800
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mo800


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeFri Jan 03, 2014 10:44 pm

Hi again anyone know how i can wire a remote starter (key fob alarm) to my vz800 in neutral and in gear. This alarm is 125db well load A.
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSat Jan 04, 2014 12:52 pm

can you post brand of starter... it would help.



This is just going off the top of my head here but if I understand correctly what your looking to connect is gear (prevents starting when in gear) and Neutral (allowing the bike to think the clutch is pressed in.)

Without the wire outputs from the starter manual it's kinda guess work...

This is just from the top of my head and loosely from a starter for a manual transmission car.

Neutral ---- Y/B from your hand clutch lever goes to the starter make connection there... (you may need to install a relay your alarm manual should say)  *This will mimic you pressing in the clutch lever allowing the bike to start*

Gear I'm thinking either the Bl or P wire from the GP switch....
Starter disable switch...anyone? Untitl10


Last edited by CanadianCruiser on Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mo800
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mo800


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSat Jan 04, 2014 1:10 pm

oh b%%%s, i ment to say not in gear, (in gear). sorry der.
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSat Jan 04, 2014 1:43 pm

so you only need to hook up one wire? (Neutral?)  if that's the case you can either do it like I said above Or off the ECM (Pin 26 Bl wire) that is the Neutral Switch that sends signal to Pilot cluster.

Starter disable switch...anyone? Untitl11
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mo800
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mo800


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSat Jan 04, 2014 8:53 pm

Thank you for that CanadianCruiser i get on it.
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSat Jan 04, 2014 9:30 pm

No prob
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mo800
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mo800


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSat Jan 04, 2014 10:26 pm

so you are saying connecting my red/yellow wire to 26 on the ecm side will by past the clutch lever and everthing be working ok.
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mo800
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mo800


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSat Jan 04, 2014 11:29 pm

Have been trying to download a picture of a wire diagram for hours not working ahrr.
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Jan 05, 2014 1:26 am

No--- what you need to do it mimic the system as though you are pressing in the clutch lever... that would be pin number 8 at the ECM (Yellow/Blue) or at the starter relay....

Connecting there the starter will tell the system that your pressing in on the clutch lever....

Pin 26 is the feed wire to tell the system that your in neutral...

Again would really help if you can tell me what starter it is then I can research it more... and get exact answers for you.
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mo800
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mo800


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeSun Jan 05, 2014 7:40 pm

oh i get it now,relay has to be installed,that the way i'll go then. Cheers. Starter disable switch...anyone? 586905
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Jan 06, 2014 1:15 pm

Starter disable switch...anyone? 1530558013
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MarcinG
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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 10, 2014 3:52 pm

I need to do that kill switch magic.

Do we have some photos/drawings that mere mortal can understand?
As in trace where the wires start/go/finish.

Diagram is nice but when I'm looking at wrapped loom, I've no idea what's what. Starter disable switch...anyone? 804997
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captain crash
Mentally Deficient lunatic ..... & ..... Site Moderator
captain crash


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 10, 2014 5:07 pm

If your having trouble looking at the wiring diagram and making sense of it I have a simpler idea for you possibly
Split and extend and extend the wires that go to the usual kill switch and put in an additional toggle switch hidden somewhere on the bike. Meaning that the kill switch on your bars is only activated when allowed to by the hidden switch
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 10, 2014 5:20 pm

Without being able to understand wiring diagrams it will be tough to explain but I'll explain it the best I can.. (don't have access to the bike right now...) for a kill switch you want to mimic the switch on the handle bar... to do that all you have to do is introduce a single pole switch (on/off) could be any type, button, toggle, etc.

so if you look at the diagram below...you will see where I put an "x"  That is the feed wire from the OEM kill switch that supplies power to the coils (coils attach with Blue wire from O/W wire...) Colour may vary either Orange or Orange/white... but both coils will feed into this... cut wire (O/W) and connect ends to each end of the switch...

Doing it this way doesn't require a relay nor is it a "True" theft preventative... all it does is require another switch to be turned on in order for the bike to fire up and run.. if the switch is carefully hidden then potential thieves can't figure out why it won't start...

A true disabler requires some degree of understanding of the vehicles electronics as it prevents any and all electrical current to run to the starter and other ignition components.. I have this on my car along with the OEM engine shut off.

EG. if someone pops my ignition and tries to hot wire it... car will not start, period because security for disable was not turned off.  Second, if somehow they managed to disable or turn off the Disabler then pop ignition and start car then the cars OEM security kicks in... after 2 seconds if the car's computer doesn't sense the transponder chip in the key the computer shuts the fuel off to the engine and kills electrical.  This can only be reset by the dealership or myself (I have the Tool scanner "DRB II Programmer" to do it).

Sorry for the long write up...

Starter disable switch...anyone? Untitl12
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Mr Intruder
Suzuki800.com Founder ... & ... Senior Administrator
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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 10, 2014 6:14 pm

Your write ups are always worth reading CC.  Starter disable switch...anyone? 3498837457
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peardrop3
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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 10, 2014 6:54 pm

In effect thats about what I did on my royal enfield 25yrs ago, switch on the low tension lead off the coil leading to a hidden switch. 
It stopped 2 yobbo's nicking it as after pushing it 1 1/2miles they gave up & dumped it in some bushes. I retrieved it, switched on & rode it home unmarked!
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captain crash
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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 10, 2014 7:17 pm

Well worth doing then  Starter disable switch...anyone? 184121345
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peardrop3
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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 10, 2014 7:22 pm

yup!
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CanadianCruiser
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CanadianCruiser


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PostSubject: Re: Starter disable switch...anyone?   Starter disable switch...anyone? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 10, 2014 7:49 pm

No doubt about it... anything you can do to deter a thief is always a plus...



One time my daughter was with a friend that got caught shoplifting... 5 pages of writing the 7th commandment was enough to deter future associations and attempts.. specially when I explained in the old days how justice was administered by severing the hand...Hell when I was a gaffer I used to get tapped with my dad's shillelagh.


sigh.. Deterrence how it used to be effective.


This is a mod I haven't done but am considering it... For those wanting I can do A nice write up and pics if there isn't one around when I do it..
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Starter disable switch...anyone? Empty
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